Verizon is continuing to have network problems. http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12557-2001Feb15.html Although Verizon's spokesperson may be correct, it may not be a systemic network-wide problem. However, it does seem to be evidence of a systemic management problem. Are things as bad in Verizon country as they got in Ameritech country? Eventually the various state PUC's had to intervene in Ameritech's service problems.
Also sprach Sean Donelan
Verizon is continuing to have network problems.
http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12557-2001Feb15.html
Although Verizon's spokesperson may be correct, it may not be a systemic network-wide problem. However, it does seem to be evidence of a systemic management problem.
Are things as bad in Verizon country as they got in Ameritech country? Eventually the various state PUC's had to intervene in Ameritech's service problems.
I find it interesting that the media is willing and eager to jump on stories about technical problems, but you have to drag them kicking and screaming to do stories about the much more severe problems resulting from the ILECs' anti-competitive activities. Sheesh. -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456
In Boston, 80% of our new Verizon ADSL installs went straight from Verizon signing off on them into a trouble ticket and back to the carrier. We stopped advertising the service entirely because they were unable to deliver it. DSL isn't their only problem, though. They still have chronic capacity shortfalls in the Boston metro area, too. This is not the kind of service record you want to see when the state PUC has recently passed on approval for Verizon LD service to the FCC. -travis On 16 Feb 2001, Sean Donelan wrote:
Verizon is continuing to have network problems.
http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12557-2001Feb15.html
Although Verizon's spokesperson may be correct, it may not be a systemic network-wide problem. However, it does seem to be evidence of a systemic management problem.
Are things as bad in Verizon country as they got in Ameritech country? Eventually the various state PUC's had to intervene in Ameritech's service problems.
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Sean Donelan said:
Are things as bad in Verizon country as they got in Ameritech country? Eventually the various state PUC's had to intervene in Ameritech's service problems.
SBC/Amth problems were|are in the POTS arena. Verizontal seems able to handle POTS; it's xDSL they fall on their nose over. Politically, LegisCritters are far more concerned about POTS problems. There are too few {outraged} xDSL users to form a voting block, at least so far. BTW, USWorst was in deep doodoo with its state PSC's a few years back, esp. after a written management directive to their govt. liaison staff to "Stall, stall, stall" surfaced. Has that changed at all? -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
David Lesher wrote:
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Sean Donelan said:
Are things as bad in Verizon country as they got in Ameritech country? Eventually the various state PUC's had to intervene in Ameritech's service problems.
SBC/Amth problems were|are in the POTS arena. Verizontal seems able to handle POTS; it's xDSL they fall on their nose over.
Actually, Verizon is hopeless for any service OTHER than POTS. Whether it's DSL, T1, ISDN, etc., if it isn't POTS, it's not important to them. I had a T1 that got pulled apart weekly 'cause the guys on the poles with the test sets didn't hear dial tone, and needed pairs. They apparently didn't know what those funny "DATA" tags were. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie dts@senie.com Amaranth Networks Inc. http://www.amaranth.com
Our T1 in New York has been down at least 5 times this year (2001), all because the tech shows up and doesn't hear a dial tone so he pulls the pair for a new phone line (there is a shortage of copper into this building). Our longhaul carrier, Level 3, almost always calls me back laughing because they show how many tickets have been open on this T1 ... always the same problem. We make fiber bright orange, should T1 copper be a different color too?? Having this many outages on a T1 has almost pushed me to ordering DSL for a good laugh. -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Daniel Senie Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 7:37 AM To: wb8foz@nrk.com Cc: nanog list Subject: Re: Systemic problems at Verizon David Lesher wrote:
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Sean Donelan said:
Are things as bad in Verizon country as they got in Ameritech country? Eventually the various state PUC's had to intervene in Ameritech's service problems.
SBC/Amth problems were|are in the POTS arena. Verizontal seems able to handle POTS; it's xDSL they fall on their nose over.
Actually, Verizon is hopeless for any service OTHER than POTS. Whether it's DSL, T1, ISDN, etc., if it isn't POTS, it's not important to them. I had a T1 that got pulled apart weekly 'cause the guys on the poles with the test sets didn't hear dial tone, and needed pairs. They apparently didn't know what those funny "DATA" tags were. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie dts@senie.com Amaranth Networks Inc. http://www.amaranth.com
On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, Aaron Moreau-Cook wrote:
Our T1 in New York has been down at least 5 times this year (2001), all because the tech shows up and doesn't hear a dial tone so he pulls the pair for a new phone line (there is a shortage of copper into this building).
Aaron: Hmmm, nearly once a week! That's almost a record. If those are puchdowns then they should be soldered anyway. Techs will be unlikely to try using one that's been soldered. Also, if you're in a building with other tennants, then you should locate wherever you circuits appear in the building and tag them yourself with something that's real obvious. Go put on your tool belt, grab your "butt-set" and dig in there like you own the place. Good luck, Chuck
There exist little red caps that fit onto 66 blocks and binding posts. They're hard to find, though. If someone here knows of the supplier, I'll buy a few hundred. In the 60's there was a special red ty-wrap that went around/over posts/punches for ""national security"" lines. You had to cut same off to test, and {in theory} requisition a replacement. I've only see same in BSP's so I've no idea if they ever got much use. We used to protect leased metallic pairs in a simpler manner; we parked +130 Tip/-130 Ring on same. When Mr. Green put his butt set on same; if his fingers didn't alert him, the BANG in his ear did. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
At 01:20 PM 2/16/01 -0500, David Lesher wrote:
There exist little red caps that fit onto 66 blocks and binding posts.
I remember these, we only had a few so we used them on the most important ckts.
We used to protect leased metallic pairs in a simpler manner; we parked +130 Tip/-130 Ring on same. When Mr. Green put his butt set on same; if his fingers didn't alert him, the BANG in his ear did.
T1 local loops were powered from the CO throughout the early 80s since the CSU was part of the service offering and telco wanted to make sure that they could loop the CSU even if the power was down at the user site. fun fun fun. dave
On Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 01:20:56PM -0500, David Lesher wrote:
There exist little red caps that fit onto 66 blocks and binding posts. They're hard to find, though. If someone here knows of the supplier, I'll buy a few hundred.
The Siemon catalog lists "Red Special Service Markers" and come in 2, 3, and 6 position sizes. See: <http://www.siemon.com/e-catalog/family.asp?FAM=co_S66_A_RSSM> I would imagine that your telecom supplier would be able to order them for you if they don't have them or a similar item in stock. Jeff
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Jeffrey C. Ollie said:
There exist little red caps that fit onto 66 blocks and binding posts. They're hard to find, though. If someone here knows of the supplier, I'll buy a few hundred.
The Siemon catalog lists "Red Special Service Markers" and come in 2, 3, and 6 position sizes. See:
<http://www.siemon.com/e-catalog/family.asp?FAM=3Dco_S66_A_RSSM>
Thanks, but the "S-779-916" series is not exactly what I'm seeking. I'm thinking of a small circular cap that fits over one punch, or terminal post. These might well be worth getting anyhow. I *do* recommend Folks gets something, and install same. Especially folks with shared closets, etc. Bribe^H^H talk your way into the MPOE location as well, and populate your points there, too. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
On Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 04:17:10PM -0500, David Lesher wrote:
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Jeffrey C. Ollie said:
The Siemon catalog lists "Red Special Service Markers" and come in 2, 3, and 6 position sizes. See:
<http://www.siemon.com/e-catalog/family.asp?FAM=3Dco_S66_A_RSSM>
Thanks, but the "S-779-916" series is not exactly what I'm seeking. I'm thinking of a small circular cap that fits over one punch, or terminal post.
if it's what i'm thinking, it's a little rubberized cap that wholey covers a punchdown.. indeeed, if someone finds a source, please send it out, as these would be a nice addition to my kit
These might well be worth getting anyhow.
if you are stuck for something to do, head down to radio shack or electronics shop and get some heat shrink tubing and shrink it to the punchdown. it dosent take a lot of heat to shrink, and it would require actual work to remove, which sould keep it safe from the average telco employee...
I *do* recommend Folks gets something, and install same. Especially folks with shared closets, etc. Bribe^H^H talk your way into the MPOE location as well, and populate your points there, too.
-- e: michael@ele-mental.org c: +1.614.260.6716 u: www.ele-mental.org Wir fahr'n fahr'n fahr'n auf der Autobahn
Hello Michael , Another trick could be to use a loop of shrink wrap across one set and another loop across the other putting a tyvek label thru both loops . Just a thought , JimL On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, michael thomas guldan wrote:
The Siemon catalog lists "Red Special Service Markers" and come in 2, 3, and 6 position sizes. See: <http://www.siemon.com/e-catalog/family.asp?FAM=3Dco_S66_A_RSSM> Thanks, but the "S-779-916" series is not exactly what I'm seeking. I'm thinking of a small circular cap that fits over one
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Jeffrey C. Ollie said: punch, or terminal post. if it's what i'm thinking, it's a little rubberized cap that wholey covers a punchdown.. indeeed, if someone finds a source, please send it out, as these would be a nice addition to my kit These might well be worth getting anyhow. if you are stuck for something to do, head down to radio shack or electronics shop and get some heat shrink tubing and shrink it to
On Fri, Feb 16, 2001 at 04:17:10PM -0500, David Lesher wrote: the punchdown. it dosent take a lot of heat to shrink, and it would require actual work to remove, which sould keep it safe from the average telco employee...
I *do* recommend Folks gets something, and install same. Especially folks with shared closets, etc. Bribe^H^H talk your way into the MPOE location as well, and populate your points there, too.
+----------------------------------------------------------------+ | James W. Laferriere | System Techniques | Give me VMS | | Network Engineer | 25416 22nd So | Give me Linux | | babydr@baby-dragons.com | DesMoines WA 98198 | only on AXP | +----------------------------------------------------------------+
David Lesher wrote:
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Sean Donelan said:
Are things as bad in Verizon country as they got in Ameritech country? Eventually the various state PUC's had to intervene in Ameritech's service problems.
SBC/Amth problems were|are in the POTS arena.
And DSL. Not just POTS. -- Steve Sobol, BOFH, President 888.480.4NET 866.DSL.EXPRESS 216.619.2NET North Shore Technologies Corporation http://NorthShoreTechnologies.net JustTheNet/JustTheNet EXPRESS DSL (ISP Services) http://JustThe.net mailto:sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net Proud resident of Cleveland, Ohio
SBC/Amth problems were|are in the POTS arena.
{Necessary but not sufficient....} My point still stands. Verizontal has not had {sufficient} POTS disasters to provoke attention from the recipients of campaign contributions. SBC *did*|*does*... USWorst did|?still does? No LegisCritter gives a rats ass about non-POTS service, be it DSL, T1, frame, 3001, MMDS or LSMFT. Hell, most can barely dial a phone since the finger holes went away. {Remember Bush the Senior and grocery store scanners?} -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, Jeff Ogden wrote: :At 11:38 AM -0500 2/16/01, Steve Sobol wrote: :>David Lesher wrote: :> :> > SBC/Amth problems were|are in the POTS arena. :> :>And DSL. Not just POTS. :> : :And T1s, T3s, Frame Relay, and ATM. Not just DSL and not just POTS. Indeed. Especially since they decommissioned the (always reliable and knowledgably-staffed) DSG in favor of the "Verizon Advanced Data, Inc." spinoff. I'd guess the staffing is the same as prior, but where it used to take less than 5 minutes to get a tech on the horn, it's now an all-day contest to avoid busy signals and voicemail boxes. If that's not enough, the lack of inter-office facilities has been a nightmare for the past 6 months or so, especially in MA. -brian
--- Jason Slagle - CCNA - CCDA Network Administrator - Toledo Internet Access - Toledo Ohio - raistlin@tacorp.net - jslagle@toledolink.com - WHOIS JS10172 /"\ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign . If dreams are like movies then memories X - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail . are films about ghosts.. / \ - NO Word docs in e-mail . - Adam Duritz - Counting Crows
And DSL. Not just POTS.
And T1s, T3s, Frame Relay, and ATM. Not just DSL and not just POTS.
Haven't had any DSL related problems here in Toledo, OH except the "Database Mismatch, no DSL available" to customers that could hit the CO with rocks. T1/FR/ATM service was REALLY bad 2 months ago. 1 hour+ holds on trouble tickets. Longer on status. Seems to have come down, at least to open tickets. ISDN is still in the pits though. The kind folk there in Ameriwreck's repair department have no record of my ISDN at all. They are opening tickets on blank records. Of course the BILLING records are fine though. Jason
Jason Slagle wrote:
Haven't had any DSL related problems here in Toledo, OH except the "Database Mismatch, no DSL available" to customers that could hit the CO with rocks.
Try provisioning in Cleveland for a month.
ISDN is still in the pits though. The kind folk there in Ameriwreck's repair department have no record of my ISDN at all. They are opening tickets on blank records.
Of course the BILLING records are fine though.
I've never, ever had trouble with Ameritech ISDN, from the time I first had it installed back in 1998 to when it was shut down and replaced with 1.0MB SDSL last November (yummy!) Well, actually, when I moved from Cleveland Heights to Euclid, the ISDN line in the apt building here proved to be unable to receive incoming calls, and they checked the line and couldn't find a problem with it. But since I never wanted to receive incoming calls on my ISDN line, I didn't care and didn't bother with any further attempts to fix the problem. -- Steve Sobol, BOFH, President 888.480.4NET 866.DSL.EXPRESS 216.619.2NET North Shore Technologies Corporation http://NorthShoreTechnologies.net JustTheNet/JustTheNet EXPRESS DSL (ISP Services) http://JustThe.net mailto:sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net Proud resident of Cleveland, Ohio
On 16 Feb 2001, Sean Donelan wrote:
Are things as bad in Verizon country as they got in Ameritech country?
i don't know how bad it is with ameritech, but honestly, verizon is a joke. since this isn't an adsl forum, i won't write the novel that i could regarding their (lack of) service. but it reaches from customer support to order placing to ticket escalation to the techs (mis) configuring their routers. some example of daily mishaps: *new customer bound to the wrong isp *inability to locate an address that is already billed by verizon (therefore, no adsl for customer) *customers switched to new vci/vpi with no coordination with us *new customers placed on new vci/vpi witn no coordination with us *refusal to service existing customers trouble tickets because they are "too far from the CO to have adsl" *days long outages that aren't explainable by anyone (techs to senior mgmt.) *customers SHUT off because they mention to bell techs that their OS is linux (we support linux, verizon doesn't, therefore, they cancel exisiting service) the last quote in that article sums it up: "For a company that supposedly should be technologically expert, they were completely unprepared for taking on the business and they have never caught up," she said. "Their service is abysmal." deeann m.m. mikula director of operations telerama public access internet http://www.telerama.com 1.877.688.3200
Are things as bad in Verizon country as they got in Ameritech country?
They're working on it. Earlier this week, they had a cable cut east of Rochester that not only took out my ISP for 12 hours, it also cut all the tandem trunks to the small ILEC that owns my ISP so the telco was cut off, too. We were not pleased. -- John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869 johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail
"John R. Levine" wrote:
They're working on it. Earlier this week, they had a cable cut east of Rochester that not only took out my ISP for 12 hours, it also cut all the tandem trunks to the small ILEC that owns my ISP so the telco was cut off, too. We were not pleased.
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner
Surely you, of all people ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ could provide some pretty secure fiber rights of way? ;-) -- Rodney Joffe CenterGate Research Group, LLC. http://www.centergate.com "Technology so advanced, even we don't understand it!"(SM)
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner
Surely you, of all people ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ could provide some pretty secure fiber rights of way? ;-)
Indeed I could. Unfortunately, I have a two-headed phone company that owns one telco here in Trumansburg and one about half an hour away in Phelps. The backhoe attack was near Phelps, probably along the Thruway in Clifton Springs. I can understand the cut, but I have trouble understanding why it took 12 hours to fix. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://iecc.com/johnl, Sewer Commissioner Finger for PGP key, f'print = 3A 5B D0 3F D9 A0 6A A4 2D AC 1E 9E A6 36 A3 47
Rodney Joffe wrote:
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner
Surely you, of all people ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ could provide some pretty secure fiber rights of way? ;-)
Not in Rochester, unless Trumansburg recently annexed Rochester and didn't tell me about it. :) -- Steve Sobol, BOFH, President 888.480.4NET 866.DSL.EXPRESS 216.619.2NET North Shore Technologies Corporation http://NorthShoreTechnologies.net JustTheNet/JustTheNet EXPRESS DSL (ISP Services) http://JustThe.net mailto:sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net Proud resident of Cleveland, Ohio
Steve Sobol wrote:
johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner
Surely you, of all people ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ could provide some pretty secure fiber rights of way? ;-)
Not in Rochester, unless Trumansburg recently annexed Rochester and didn't tell me about it. :)
I apologize. This was a stupid response. My brain isn't working right now, and I am going to log off and go to sleep :P -- Steve Sobol, BOFH, President 888.480.4NET 866.DSL.EXPRESS 216.619.2NET North Shore Technologies Corporation http://NorthShoreTechnologies.net JustTheNet/JustTheNet EXPRESS DSL (ISP Services) http://JustThe.net mailto:sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net Proud resident of Cleveland, Ohio
participants (19)
-
Aaron Moreau-Cook -
Brian Wallingford -
Charles Scott -
Daniel Senie -
dave o'leary -
David Lesher -
deeann mikula -
Jason Slagle -
Jeff Mcadams -
Jeff Ogden -
Jeffrey C. Ollie -
John R Levine -
johnl＠iecc.com
-
michael thomas guldan -
Mr. James W. Laferriere -
Rodney Joffe -
Sean Donelan -
Steve Sobol -
Travis Pugh