Sprint Mailbombing Update 3PM EST
3PM EST and that mailbombing from a Sprint customer continues full-blast, well into its third full day, and Sprint continues to refuse to do anything about it. Go ahead, tell me again how this is nothing but a spam whine -- three days, thousands and thousands of messages, all being bounced back, non-stop, and Sprint refuses to lift a finger or acknowledge that this is an operational problem. Sprint should not be allowed to operate on the internet, they're destroying it, they're completely irresponsible. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@world.std.com | http://www.std.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD The World | Public Access Internet | Since 1989
Hi Barry,
Go ahead, tell me again how this is nothing but a spam whine
For a friend, sure. Barry, it's nothing but a spam whine. :-) But more seriously.
three days, thousands and thousands of messages, all being bounced back, non-stop, and Sprint refuses to lift a finger or acknowledge that this is an operational problem.
Well, it's not really an Ops problem. Ops folk worry about packets and stuff like that, not social and legal issues such as this. Within organizations such as Sprint, they're usually not empowered to take the kinds of actions you want. And you seem to have the attack effectively repelled for the moment. So a more cautious but longer lasting approach might be worth considering. E.g. Sprint management might need some constructive help to get an anti-spam policy into their customer contracts. If the Sprint customer community can make Sprint Product Marketing think that [potential] customers will see this as a benefit, then they could do the things which would make Ops folk able to take more immediate actions than passing the buck upstairs. Some of Sprint's competitors have gone this path, which may make it easier to get Sprint managament to see it as a good thing. But it may take sophisticated math to calculate the effort to get an organization with as many lawyers as Sprint has to make legal changes.
Sprint should not be allowed to operate on the internet, they're destroying it, they're completely irresponsible.
This seems a bit extreme, and probably does not help get your point across. I've been involved in some spam issues, and life is often less clear than one might like. It's not like there is good legislative or case law on this stuff, and companies large enough to have lawyers tend to worry about such problems. John Curran wrote a nice summary of this and the related due process issues last month. Until the provider community management perceives spam as needing to be abolished, the legal and procedural framework will not be in place for us lowly ops folk to nuke the <bleep>ers the minute they appear on the scope. Provider community management perceptions are driven by customer demand. So it would be very helpful for the user community to make clear to big provider management that they don't want to receive spam. randy
On Sat, 4 Jan 1997, Randy Bush wrote:
Well, it's not really an Ops problem. Ops folk worry about packets and stuff like that, not social and legal issues such as this. Within organizations such as Sprint, they're usually not empowered to take the kinds of actions you want.
I hate to continue this argument (perhaps we should all move it over to isp-admin-list@aol.com, which is a good place for real admin types to discuss these types of issues), but I have to disagree -- just as with a standard pingflood, the intent is irrelevant, the flood must be stopped. A very good case could be made that isp-inter.net is slowly packetflooding world.std.com on port 25. -- J.D. Falk, System Administrator <lart@cais.net> CAIS Internet <noc@cais.net> McLean, Virginia, USA 1-888-CAIS-NOC
At 11:57 AM -0500 1/5/97, JDF (J.D. Falk) wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 1997, Randy Bush wrote:
Well, it's not really an Ops problem. Ops folk worry about packets and stuff like that, not social and legal issues such as this. Within organizations such as Sprint, they're usually not empowered to take the kinds of actions you want.
I hate to continue this argument (perhaps we should all move it over to isp-admin-list@aol.com, which is a good place for real admin types to discuss these types of issues), but I have to disagree -- just as with a standard pingflood, the intent is irrelevant, the flood must be stopped. A very good case could be made that isp-inter.net is slowly packetflooding world.std.com on port 25.
I don't want, either, to get into the ethics of spam or carrier responsibilities. Traffic and congestion issues, however, are another matter. I received yet another cyberpromo spam this morning, that contains a specific threat of retaliatory mailbombing -- IF CYBERPROMO'S _SOFTWARE_ decides a response is a flame. I've not included message headers and such to avoid making this a spam issue, althought I would note there is a bogus source, and headers make it appear it is being relayed through ibm.net. Think about it if this cyberpromo threat is real. What if several people respond with flames? What is the potential for congestion if this escalates? Howard ********* quoted from cyberpromo ********* To keep up with the respect of internet users who wish their names removed from Noci Marketing's emailing list, simply mail to: noci@cyberpromo.com and type "remove" in the subject field or message body. It's that simple. NOTE TO FLAMERS:DON'T DO IT! We will comply with and respect all REMOVE requests, but if we are flamed we will (a) FLAME YOU 1000 times as much (b)email to 3 million people a questionable item with your return email address. We want respect as much as anyone else, so if you give it, you shall receive it. ... ADDITIONAL INFO ON FABAO????-- (AOL MEMBERS... go to keyword: preferredmail and turn off preferred mail or AOL will block the answer to your question and it will not go through) SEND QUESTIONS TO noci@cyberpromo.com-put "PDG" in subject header, and ask away in the message body. Your message will be forwarded to Cybergen Health, but will be filtered for questionable content and size(max. 5K), and if it does not comply with our acceptable usage, our software will IMMEDIATELY and AUTOMATICALLY proceed to implement the remedies described above. ****---
On Sun, 5 Jan 1997, Howard C. Berkowitz wrote:
I don't want, either, to get into the ethics of spam or carrier responsibilities. Traffic and congestion issues, however, are another matter. I received yet another cyberpromo spam this morning, that contains a specific threat of retaliatory mailbombing -- IF CYBERPROMO'S _SOFTWARE_ decides a response is a flame.
Think about it if this cyberpromo threat is real. What if several people respond with flames? What is the potential for congestion if this escalates?
What if Cyberpromo sells this software to other spammers? What if the spammers are all on a mailing list sharing their techniques? What if iq-internet.com is running a similar mail robot and that is causing the flood that is hitting world.std.com?
(b)email to 3 million people a questionable item with your return email address.
Sounds like intent to commit a crime to me. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com
On Sat, 4 Jan 1997, Barry Shein wrote:
3PM EST and that mailbombing from a Sprint customer continues full-blast, well into its third full day, and Sprint continues to refuse to do anything about it.
This is not a sprint problem. If you don't like sprint filter some of their space from our network.
Go ahead, tell me again how this is nothing but a spam whine -- three days, thousands and thousands of messages, all being bounced back, non-stop, and Sprint refuses to lift a finger or acknowledge that this is an operational problem.
Nope
Sprint should not be allowed to operate on the internet, they're destroying it, they're completely irresponsible.
Give me a break, I have problems with sprint, but they are not destroying the internet. Nathan Stratton CEO, NetRail, Inc. Tracking the future today! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phone (703)524-4800 NetRail, Inc. Fax (703)534-5033 2007 N. 15 St. Suite 5 Email sales@netrail.net Arlington, Va. 22201 WWW http://www.netrail.net/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Matthew 6:34
participants (7)
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Allan Chong -
Barry Shein -
Howard C. Berkowitz -
JDF -
Michael Dillon -
Nathan Stratton -
randy＠psg.com