Of course! Just a question? How can Jessica (or anyone at Merit/ANS Sprint, Ebone or anyone else reselling) -prevent- the customer from doing aggregation once (M/A, Sprint, Alternet, Ebone) are cidr capable?
Don't beleive them.
Perhaps I was not clear. If I (NSP to the world) claim the be cidr capable and willing to accept & transit cidr routes, what basis do I have to restrict my clients from sending me aggregated routes? If I follow the advice given above, (from a number of folks), then I am capricious in acceptance of stated policy. Merit/ANS should accept my NACR for route addition/removal as long as it affects nets that are verifiably mine. Sprint, Alternet, and Ebone are in the same boat (I think).
Can any of us arbitrarily deny our clients? I think not. If I choose to have Merit/ANS remove more specific routes, I think they are obligated to do so. Is this true? That way, -I- am responsible, not my provider.
-- Regards, Bill Manning
Here's what happens... When a customer switches from provider-A (PA) to provider-B (PB) PB sends NACR for customer networks (CNETS) to ANS ANS sends NACR to PA for approval PA sends approval to ANS (or not, at PA's discretion) ANS processes NACR If PA decides not to approve the NACR, the NACR does not happen. The issue can eventually be forced, and it is usually easier to renumber the customer. Some less professional providers have done this. Other providers have gone so far as to issue their customers individual 8 bit subnets of class B networks owned by the provider. In fact, some providers (reasonably so, IMHO) refuse to approve a NACR until the leaving customer has paid their final bill (or the bill up to current, anyway). Afterall, turning someone off for not paying for service IS a reasonable collections tactic. It's used by almost every utility, and Network Service Providers, although competitive, are basically a utility. If the network number moves somewhere else, then the old provider has no ability to shut down the connection. Owen DeLong Netcom Network Operations
I think this is a tangent to the CIDR discussion, but the situation that Owen describes below occured a few times when I was at Merit. In those cases what I did was to contact all of the parties (PA, PB and the customer, sometimes all on the phone together for additional entertainment). Often the argument can be resolved right away but if not, it was a difficult call. Since Merit supports the NSF's policies, if the customer was a research/education AUP organization, the decision was weighted to the benefit of the customer. If it was purely a commercial business argument, we would sit for a while to see if there would be a settlement before taking any stand. Mark
Here's what happens... When a customer switches from provider-A (PA) to provider-B (PB)
PB sends NACR for customer networks (CNETS) to ANS ANS sends NACR to PA for approval PA sends approval to ANS (or not, at PA's discretion) ANS processes NACR
If PA decides not to approve the NACR, the NACR does not happen. The issue can eventually be forced, and it is usually easier to renumber the customer. Some less professional providers have done this. Other providers have gone so far as to issue their customers individual 8 bit subnets of class B networks owned by the provider. In fact, some providers (reasonably so, IMHO) refuse to approve a NACR until the leaving customer has paid their final bill (or the bill up to current, anyway). Afterall, turning someone off for not paying for service IS a reasonable collections tactic. It's used by almost every utility, and Network Service Providers, although competitive, are basically a utility. If the network number moves somewhere else, then the old provider has no ability to shut down the connection.
Owen DeLong Netcom Network Operations
-------- ] (Owen DeLong) ] ... ] If PA decides not to approve the NACR, the NACR does not happen. The ] issue can eventually be forced, and it is usually easier to renumber ] the customer. Some less professional providers have done this. Other ] providers have gone so far as to issue their customers individual ] 8 bit subnets of class B networks owned by the provider. In fact, ] some providers (reasonably so, IMHO) refuse to approve a NACR until ] the leaving customer has paid their final bill (or the bill up to ] current, anyway). Afterall, turning someone off for not paying for ] service IS a reasonable collections tactic. It's used by almost every ] utility, and Network Service Providers, although competitive, are basically ] a utility. If the network number moves somewhere else, then the old ] provider has no ability to shut down the connection. Wonderful. This practice makes it likely that a client with a billing dispute will suffer a service outage during transition. Given that I've seen billing disputes go both way, it's not exactly reassuring. Are there any providers that have made this their standard operating procedures? It might help to know which engage in this practice for transition planning purposes. /John
John Curran
Wonderful. This practice makes it likely that a client with a billing dispute will suffer a service outage during transition. Given that I've seen billing disputes go both way, it's not exactly reassuring.
Are there any providers that have made this their standard operating procedures? It might help to know which engage in this practice for transition planning purposes.
Not us. There are better ways to solve billing disputes. (although the idea of a mechanics lien is interesting) -- Regards, Bill Manning
participants (4)
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bmanning＠is.rice.edu -
John Curran -
Mark Knopper -
owen＠netcom.com