This has already been discussed with the FBI, and with attorneys. We are right hands down. The difficulty is doing the collections (actually, finding assets that can be seized) from people who don't want to pay. But I have insurance industry contacts (the insurance industry really knows how to find peoples assets) and some collection agencies willing to take the task. Anyway, I'm not willing to argue this with you. Take this as a statement. You can disagree right up until the tow truck takes your car away. You can still disagree. --Dean Around 07:10 PM 11/22/1999 -0500, rumor has it that Greg A. Woods said:
[ On Monday, November 22, 1999 at 14:16:25 (-0500), Dean Anderson wrote: ]
Subject: Re: ARIN whois
Gee. We operated relay services for almost 4 years with only one incident before this summer. Since the antispammers started inciting attacks, we've been attacked more than 2 dozen times since July. Coincidence? I think not.
I think so. Lots and lots of people are suddenly finding their previously un-touched open relays are now being abused. Just because they're suddenly abusing you doesn't mean beans. Join the group, but please stay in line and don't get pushy -- you're no worse of than any of the rest.
Also, there aren't very many _real spams_ in the attacks. The attacks are spamlike, but generally not spam. But the content of the messages doesn't matter. I don't care if its spam or not spam. Services rendered are worth money. We are entitled to collect the money regardless of the purpose of the relayed messages. If the money exceeds $5000, the unauthorized access becomes criminal. We complain to FBI. The "relayer" will be found. And we are still entitled to the money for the services provided.
No, you're not. No contract was entered into, obviously; and of course if you didn't protect your services so that they could only be used by authorised users then there's not much you can do to the so-called "abusers". This is especially true when there are simple and obvious technical means of providing guaranteed protection. It's like replacing the key lock on an unattended service station with a big red manual on/off switch and changing the neon sign to read "Free Gas -- Help Yourself!" They're not jimmying the lock because there isn't one!
-- Greg A. Woods
+1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP <gwoods@acm.org> <robohack!woods> Planix, Inc. <woods@planix.com>; Secrets of the Weird <woods@weird.com>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean@av8.com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Dean Anderson said:
This has already been discussed with the FBI, and with attorneys. We are right
Anyway, I'm not willing to argue this with you. Take this as a statement. You
Maybe he can use some of the proceeds and buy a newline charactor or two as well.... -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Anyway, I'm not willing to argue this with you. Take this as a statement. You can disagree right up until the tow truck takes your car away. You can still disagree.
Hear, hear! I'm hoping that this list won't degenerate into another emacs vs. vi, sendmail vs. qmail/exim/postfix/MTA du jour, or righteousness of popular anti-spam activities debate. I'm on enough other lists that do that as it is. Dean is right about this: agree to disagree. Accept responsibility for your actions, and if you truly think you're right, be willing to accept the consequences. But bickering about it isn't helping. Thought the goal of NANOG was about cooperation between network service providers, with network being the operative word. It would really be nice if the list could stay in keeping with its charter and AUP. Chris (who just wants to get back to network issues)
i am amazed at how much free time people seem to have for this idiocy. vixie, black-hole the idiot relays and let's all get back to work. randy
Anyway, I'm not willing to argue this with you. Take this as a statement. You can disagree right up until the tow truck takes your car away. You can still disagree.
Hear, hear! I'm hoping that this list won't degenerate into another emacs vs. vi, sendmail vs. qmail/exim/postfix/MTA du jour, or righteousness of popular anti-spam activities debate. I'm on enough other lists that do that as it is.
where have you been? this list always does degenerate to what-you-said. it has for a long time. but it's entertaining if you do what a good friend of mine told me to do. "get the kids to bed (if you have them), read some important mail, do whatever else, drink a few beers (maybe a 6-pack), *THEN* read nanog" -brett
participants (5)
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brett watson -
Christopher P. Lindsey -
David Lesher -
Dean Anderson -
Randy Bush