Larry writes:
You are wrong, these people *are* elected. They are elected by the millions of users who do not want spam. The answer is simple but for some reason you refuse to see it. I would gladly grant all necessary authority to my ISP to act in any way that benefits me and my wishes.
Nonsense. Democratic forums are open, transparent, accountable, feature regular elections, laws, constitutions and so on. There are no such institutions on the net. There are technically capable but otherwise unsophisticated lads running around pretending they are the law. They aren't. Larry continues:
As for your characterization of Paul Vixie, I have only this to say. There's an old saying in the legal community that goes like this: "If the law is on your side, argue the law. If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. But if neither the law *or* the facts are on your side, then assassinate the character of your opponents".
It seems pretty clear to me that your only recourse is to assault those people who would work in the interests of the greater good of the users of the Internet, or, more to the point, who would disagree with you. On the surface, you appear to be quite the hypocrite, attacking others for allegedly...attacking others.
In a civil forum I have drawn into question the activities of persons acting in what I believe to be unethical and unscrupulous manners. I have attacked no-one and interfered with no person's civil liberties, rights and/or freedoms. Whereas Mr. Vixie regularly trades in the violation of these rights. With nothing more to back him up but technical know-how and a gang of fellow geekthugs. A very unfortunate situation I suspect time will alter to a conclusion more in line with our traditons or democracy than with Vixie et al's propensity to totalitarian despotism. Respectfully, Bob Allisat Free Community Network _ bob@fcn.net . http://fcn.net http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft
Nonsense. Democratic forums are open, transparent, accountable, feature regular elections, laws, constitutions and so on. There are no such institutions on the
I don't think anyone ever claimed the RBL is a democratic institution. Though this should go without saying, it certainly is not. Still, what it does, it does well, and I truly appreciate its existence. I think the only real freedom with regards to the RBL is the freedom of choice: Upstreams are not *required* to subscribe to it, and customers are not *required* to obtain service from RBL-ized upstreams.
net. There are technically capable but otherwise unsophisticated lads running around pretending they are the law. They aren't.
I think not.
manners. I have attacked no-one ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Very cute. See above.
regularly trades in the violation of these rights. With nothing more to back him up but technical know-how and a gang of fellow geekthugs. A very unfortunate situation I suspect time will alter to a conclusion more in line with our traditons or democracy than with Vixie et al's propensity to totalitarian despotism.
I sure hope it does not change as such. Then again, I don't consider it to be an unfortunate situation. The only unfortunate situation is that you are a k00k who types with a 40-column terminal, fails to function on a rational manner, and tries to protect freedoms that are not violated in the first place. Gee, this is getting boring and non-operational. Where are those backhoes and gophers when we need them? 8-)
Adam writes:
I sure hope it does not change as such. Then again, I don't consider it to be an unfortunate situation. The only unfortunate situation is that you are a k00k who types with a 40-column terminal, fails to function on a rational manner, and tries to protect freedoms that are not violated in the first place.
Interesting. As in not. The discussion from your side has degraded into name calling. Bob Allisat Free Community Network _ bob@fcn.net . http://fcn.net http://fcn.net/allisat _ http://fcn.net/draft
On Sun, 22 Nov 1998, Bob Allisat wrote:
Interesting. As in not. The discussion from your side has degraded into name calling.
Hah! Dude, the operational nature of this thread has like totally worn off. Kindly move this thread to Jared's rbl-discuss list, or drop it completely. Warmest regards, -asr
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 <VIC-20-MODE> What makes you think that a global network of private networks is a democratic forum? Who's definition of "democratic?" You don't even live in the same democracy as the majority of the users on the net (you are in Canada and not the U.S.A.) Should your definition of democracy override their definition of the same? One of the founding principles of a democracy is the right to private property. Every piece of equipment on this network which is not owned by the various governments is by definition private property. If you want a democratic network, go create a government body to buy all of the equipment and pay for all of the comm. links and then that government body can run their network in whatever form of "democracy" they choose. Until then, the people who own the equipment and directly pay the comm. bills have the right to protect their networks as they see fit. If their customers don't like the way their provider does business they always have the right to choose a different provider. </VIC-20-MODE> Furthermore in the U.S.A. they have the democratic right to freedom of association. If they don't want to associate (do business with or communicate) with spammers, net-kooks or anyone else for that matter it is their right not to do so. Your right to free speech ends at the private property line/perimeter routers of their network. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Bob Allisat Sent: Saturday, November 21, 1998 7:00 AM To: Lawrence A. Deleski Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: ORBS: Another Vigilante Group Larry writes:
You are wrong, these people *are* elected. They are elected by the millions of users who do not want spam. The answer is simple but for some reason you refuse to see it. I would gladly grant all necessary authority to my ISP to act in any way that benefits me and my wishes.
Nonsense. Democratic forums are open, transparent, accountable, -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.5 for non-commercial use <http://www.nai.com> Comment: All Spammers Are Thieves - Jail Them Now iQA/AwUBNldNKzAufbtGOmgdEQLe6QCcCTHi0T5EeJsroj5lc9KUU+HjRKoAn2Xn 2u66+AYsT0LXx5YMLcxGj0no =DRN7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
At 11:59 11/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
Nonsense. Democratic forums are open, transparent, accountable, feature regular elections, laws, constitutions and so on. There are no such institutions on the net. There are technically capable but otherwise unsophisticated lads running around pretending they are the law. They aren't.
So go complain to the law. And quit wasting my bandwidth lest I send you a bill. Payable in US $, that is.
It seems pretty clear to me that your only recourse is to assault those people who would work in the interests of the greater good of the users of the Internet, or, more to the point, who would disagree with you. On the surface, you appear to be quite the hypocrite, attacking others for allegedly...attacking others.
In a civil forum I have drawn into question the activities of persons acting in what I believe to be unethical and unscrupulous manners. I have attacked no-one and interfered with no person's civil liberties, rights and/or freedoms.
No attacks on anyone....
Whereas Mr. Vixie regularly trades in the violation of these rights. With nothing more to back him up but technical know-how and a gang of fellow geekthugs.
Except, of course, right here... A very unfortunate
situation I suspect time will alter to a conclusion more in line with our traditons or democracy than with Vixie et al's propensity to totalitarian despotism.
Say, Bob...a little free with the "our traditions of democracy" stuff aren't you? Considering you're a Canadian and I don't believe that Canada is a democracy, per se... Oh...and for the record, I'd consider calling someone a totalitarian despot an attack (not to mention redundant). Bug off, Kook. Spammers should be investigated by Ken Starr! Dean Robb PC-EASY computer services (757) 495-EASY [3279]
participants (4)
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Adam Rothschild -
Bob Allisat -
Dean Robb -
James D. Wilson