building on andy's comments: is there a forthcoming section on criterium for demonstrating reformation by the sp and/or 'offending' user? without it, you will leave it up to individuals, which will cause inconsistancies. the proposal does not take in to account the global differences in sp business models or ideals. are the same standards to be applied to developing countries, or will they have a less rigorous set of criteria, a la current environment policies? if there were 1000 compromised nodes that took place in a ddos, would you accept the larger dos caused by blacklisting those networks/hosts? how long would the sp's be expected to shoulder the 'collateral damage' caused by the blacklisting (see first question)? suppose that the next day, 500 nodes took place in another ddos, the policy imposed dos becomes even larger. a skillful hacker could potentially cause a larger, and longer lasting dos. legislating morality does not work (think of the 'drug war' in america). you cannot correct social ills with a purely technical solution. my $0.02 usd joshua Andy Dills <andy@xecu.net> wrote:

Some comments, after reading the draft:

Under 2.1, Form of Practice, where you finally talk about what it is you're propsing:

"The withdrawal of IR (use of blocklists, cancellation of routing, withdrawal of IP addresses and domain names) may in its early months of adoption split the Internet into oceans of purity and islands of pollution. As withdrawal expands, polluters will be pushed into ever smaller and less connected domains, which grow ever more blocked. This cumulative process will end quickly, with residual polluted islands populated by those lacking a need to communicate with oceans of purity."

That's the primary flaw. This will never get implemented due to the cavalier attitude towards collateral damage.

Like you said, you need everybody to jump at the same time. Unfortunately, there is almost zero chance of that happening. Hell, I seriously doubt that IPv6 will ever replace IPv4 (at least until we truly run out of address space...which is looking less likely with time). To ostracize those who disagree by lableing them abuse-supporters is to diminish your chances even further. You'll end up with an island of purity in the middle of an ocean of pollution..."and the cumulative process will end quickly" when your customers come to your NOC with pitchforks and shotguns. In the end, we're here to serve the customer, not the other way around.

Remember, it's a fine line. The network operators don't advocate abuse; the business end of cash-desperate networks are the driving force in this industry, not us.

Andy

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