RE: IPv6 allocatin (was Re: ARIN Policy on IP-based Web Hosting)
I disagree, IPv6 is already significantly being deployed in the Inernet2. So far though that is only used by University and research orgs, kinda like Arpanet was in teh begining. Significant new applications are being deployed for it specifically, and great innovations are taking place. Eventually, that will replace the Internet as we know it today, and IPv6 will be implemented, unless someone comes up with anything better, which isnt that unlikely. Morgan -----Original Message----- From: smd@clock.org [mailto:smd@clock.org] Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 15:56 To: David.Conrad@nominum.com; mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp Cc: nanog@merit.edu; ted@mirror-image.net Subject: Re: IPv6 allocatin (was Re: ARIN Policy on IP-based Web Hosting) | When, do you think, will IPv6 come someywhere close to being | significantly deployed? When pigs fly and the devil invests in snow-removal equipment. Sean. Disclaimer ---------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. This communication represents the originator's personal views and opinions, which do not necessarily reflect those of the NSC Group. If you are not the original recipient or the person responsible for delivering the email to the intended recipient, be advised that you have received this email in error, and that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you received this email in error, please immediately notify administrator@nscglobal.com.
Maybe they should have used internet2 as a mechanism of getting people moved to ipv6 by requiring IPv6 only on internet2. As the migration to internet2 continues, this sould also force migration to IPv6. Vendors who want to sell to customer on internet2 would have to support IPv6. Organizations that have completed the move to internet2 would be given new space in IPv6 and have to return any IPv4 space as part of the move. Might seem a little draconian, but might also get the conversoin done with less disruption overall.
I disagree, IPv6 is already significantly being deployed in the Inernet2. So far though that is only used by University and research orgs, kinda like Arpanet was in teh begining. Significant new applications are being deployed for it specifically, and great innovations are taking place. Eventually, that will replace the Internet as we know it today, and IPv6 will be implemented, unless someone comes up with anything better, which isnt that unlikely. Morgan
-----Original Message----- From: smd@clock.org [mailto:smd@clock.org] Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 15:56 To: David.Conrad@nominum.com; mohta@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp Cc: nanog@merit.edu; ted@mirror-image.net Subject: Re: IPv6 allocatin (was Re: ARIN Policy on IP-based Web Hosting)
| When, do you think, will IPv6 come someywhere close to being | significantly deployed?
When pigs fly and the devil invests in snow-removal equipment.
Sean.
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-- Richard Shetron multics@ruserved.com multics@acm.rpi.edu NO UCE What is the Meaning of Life? There is no meaning, It's just a consequence of complex carbon based chemistry; don't worry about it The Super 76, "Free Aspirin and Tender Sympathy", Las Vegas Strip.
Maybe they should have used internet2 as a mechanism of getting people moved to ipv6 by requiring IPv6 only on internet2. As the migration to internet2 continues, this sould also force migration to IPv6. Vendors who want to sell to customer on internet2 would have to support IPv6. Organizations that have completed the move to internet2 would be given new space in IPv6 and have to return any IPv4 space as part of the move.
Might seem a little draconian, but might also get the conversoin done with less disruption overall.
Admittedly an interesting thought to encourage propagation, but then again, you can't treat an IPv6 migration as if IPv4 is just going to disappear overnight. So, that type of co-existance might actually be a good thing. Interop is typically where most issues occur. Pure v4 or v6 stacks are typically no brainers. -- Christian Kuhtz, Sr. Network Architect Architecture, BellSouth.net <ck@arch.bellsouth.net> -wk, <ck@gnu.org> -hm Atlanta, GA "Speaking for myself only."
On Fri, 1 Sep 2000, Christian Kuhtz wrote:
Admittedly an interesting thought to encourage propagation, but then again, you can't treat an IPv6 migration as if IPv4 is just going to disappear overnight. So, that type of co-existance might actually be a good thing. Interop is typically where most issues occur.
Are we building production networks or doing experiments? IPv6 exhibits no added functionality over IPv4 + NAT, so why bother?
Pure v4 or v6 stacks are typically no brainers.
Yeah, sure, that's why there are so many broken IPv4 stacks around. ---vadim
Pure v4 or v6 stacks are typically no brainers.
Yeah, sure, that's why there are so many broken IPv4 stacks around.
I apologize, the point I was trying to make was interoperability between two different stacks is more difficult than one stack by itself or networking purely in one type of stack rather than mixing and matching stacks types. -- Christian Kuhtz, Sr. Network Architect Architecture, BellSouth.net <ck@arch.bellsouth.net> -wk, <ck@gnu.org> -hm Atlanta, GA "Speaking for myself only."
On Fri, Sep 01, 2000 at 04:18:30PM +0100, Morgan Dollard wrote:
I disagree, IPv6 is already significantly being deployed in the Inernet2. So far though that is only used by University and research orgs, kinda like Arpanet was in teh begining. Significant new applications are being deployed for it specifically, and great innovations are taking place. Eventually, that will replace the Internet as we know it today, and IPv6 will be implemented, unless someone comes up with anything better, which isnt that unlikely.
The Internet as we know it took 30 years to come to everybody, and it was providing something that essentially wasn't provided before. Internet2 provides the same thing, only faster; so why do we believe it will replace the existing solution *EVER*, much less in a shorter time frame than 30 years? The Internet is going to be with us for a very long time. Emphasis should be on fixing it, not replacing it.
The Internet as we know it took 30 years to come to everybody, and it was providing something that essentially wasn't provided before.
Internet2 provides the same thing, only faster; so why do we believe it will replace the existing solution *EVER*, much less in a shorter time frame than 30 years?
The timeframe may be considerably less. Technology appears to be evolving at an increasingly rapid pace. Just because it took as a couple of thousand years from throwing rocks to fighting with swords, doesn't mean the next step will be equally slow. Particularly not if you subscribe to the theory that innovation overall increases the speed/frequency of innovation itself..
The Internet is going to be with us for a very long time. Emphasis should be on fixing it, not replacing it.
Fixes do come as upgrades and as enhancements. That's what IPv6 is. Sounds like somebody is getting nostalgic about the v4 world here. What's the point? Hmm, resistance to change, hmm, odd, resistance to change is bad, hmm. HMM. Change is good. Otherwise evolution and innovation is not possible. -- Christian Kuhtz, Sr. Network Architect Architecture, BellSouth.net <ck@arch.bellsouth.net> -wk, <ck@gnu.org> -hm Atlanta, GA "Speaking for myself only."
The Internet as we know it took 30 years to come to everybody, and it was providing something that essentially wasn't provided before.
Internet2 provides the same thing, only faster; so why do we believe it will replace the existing solution *EVER*, much less in a shorter time frame than 30 years?
The Internet is going to be with us for a very long time. Emphasis should be on fixing it, not replacing it.
Is it just me or is the Internet2 not a very big deal? Its based on OC-48c and OC-192c technology as far as I know, so why would its adoption change _anything_ except the some switch or router gear that guarantees QoS? I admit my information may be woefully out of date; I saw an article in InternetWeek about transfering a file at 40Mbit/s. I wouldn't see the big deal at 400Mbit/s. Deepak Jain AiNET
At 17:02 01/09/00 -0400, Deepak Jain wrote:
The Internet as we know it took 30 years to come to everybody, and it was providing something that essentially wasn't provided before.
Internet2 provides the same thing, only faster; so why do we believe it will replace the existing solution *EVER*, much less in a shorter time frame than 30 years?
The Internet is going to be with us for a very long time. Emphasis should be on fixing it, not replacing it.
Is it just me or is the Internet2 not a very big deal? Its based on OC-48c and OC-192c technology as far as I know, so why would its adoption change _anything_ except the some switch or router gear that guarantees QoS?
I admit my information may be woefully out of date; I saw an article in InternetWeek about transfering a file at 40Mbit/s. I wouldn't see the big deal at 400Mbit/s.
A link to review first: http://www.internet2.edu/news/html/i2lsr.html In any event, Internet-2 is *not* about having a bigger pipe (best left to James Cameron - if size really does matter) - it is about having a smarter pipe. Smartness may manifest itself as: - on paper: QoS end to end - in practice - the ability to view an MPEG-1 2Mb/sec video with no packet loss from 6000 miles away. Try watching any of these at 2+Mb/sec: http://media2.bmrc.berkeley.edu/demo/mpeg/ http://www.researchchannel.com/ondemand/duke/HalfTimePromo.html http://www.researchchannel.com/ondemand/duke/Asx/ht_spot_m2_56m.asx It doesn't matter how fat a pipe you have - it depends how loaded it may be. Let me know how well you see it. I see it is fine - each and every time - over a mere T3. - on paper: going at 800Mb/sec end to end - in practice: how many TCP tuned systems do you know out there that can handle 800Mb/sec? I'll make it easier - how many systems that can handle 10Mb/sec TCP streams (sending) from coast to coast? Try: http://www.psc.edu/networking/perf_tune.html - in practice: ADSL users suddenly got huge performance boosts when they realized they needed to tune their Windows TCP stack. I consider that a trickle down affect of I2 research, already. -Hank
Deepak Jain AiNET
participants (7)
-
Christian Kuhtz -
Deepak Jain -
Hank Nussbacher -
Morgan Dollard -
multics＠ruserved.com -
Shawn McMahon -
Vadim Antonov