On Sunday, March 09, 1997 6:48 AM, Brett L. Hawn[SMTP:blh@nol.net] wrote: @ So that I'm not misunderstood let me say this: @ @ 1: I do not neccessarily agree with the sale of IPs, personally, I don't @ think its a good idea @ There are several issues here: 1. The ownership of aggregated IPv4 addresses (i.e. blocks). 2. The leasing of those blocks. 3. The registration of those blocks. 4. The reverse resolution of those blocks. 5. The routing announcement of those blocks. An "owner" [#1] may not be involved in any of the remaining activities above and may only care about collecting "rent". People might find it interesting that several of the companies with massive /8 allocations do not think they "own" the blocks. They can not own them because they never paid for them. Likewise, they are not leasing the blocks, because they do not know who the owner is and would be willing to pay "rent" if they could identify the owner. @@@@@@@@ First 25% of IPv4 Address Space @@@@@@@@@@ CA 0.0.0.0 IANA (RESERVED-1) CA 1.0.0.0 IANA (RESERVED-9) CA 2.0.0.0 Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) (RESERVED) (NET-RESERVED-2) NJ 3.0.0.0 General Electric Company (NET-GE-INTERNET) MA 4.0.0.0 BBN Planet (NET-SATNET) CA 5.0.0.0 Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) (RESERVED) (NET-RESERVED-5) AZ 6.0.0.0 Army Information Systems Center (NET-YPG-NET) CA 7.0.0.0 Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) (RESERVED-11) MA 8.0.0.0 Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc. (NET-BBN-NET-TEMP) NY 9.0.0.0 IBM Corporation (NET-IBM) CA 10.0.0.0 IANA (RESERVED-6) CA 11.0.0.0 DoD Intel Information Systems (NET-DODIIS) FL 12.0.0.0 AT&T ITS (NET-ATT) CA 13.0.0.0 Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (NET-XEROX-NET) CA 14.0.0.0 Public Data Network (NET-PDN) CA 15.0.0.0 Hewlett-Packard Company (NET-HP-INTERNET) CA 16.0.0.0 Digital Equipment Corporation (NET-DEC-INTERNET) CA 17.0.0.0 Apple Computer, Inc. (NET-APPLE-WWNET) MA 18.0.0.0 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (NET-MIT-TEMP) MI 19.0.0.0 Ford Motor Company (NET-FINET) VA 20.0.0.0 Computer Sciences Corporation (NET-CSC) VA 21.0.0.0 DDN-RVN (NET-DDN-RVN) DC 22.0.0.0 Defense Information Systems Agency (NET-DISNET) CA 23.0.0.0 IANA (NET-DDN-TC-NET) CA 24.0.0.0 @Home Network (NETBLK-ATHOME) ATHOME 24.0.0.0 - 24.3.255.0 UK 25.0.0.0 Royal Signals and Radar Establishment (NET-RSRE-EXP) VA 26.0.0.0 Defense Information Systems Agency (NET-MILNET) CA 27.0.0.0 Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) (RESERVED-10) VA 28.0.0.0 ARPA DSI JPO (NET-DSI-NORTH) DC 29.0.0.0 Defense Information Systems Agency (NET-MILX25-TEMP) DC 30.0.0.0 Defense Information Systems Agency (NET-ARPAX25-TEMP) CA 31.0.0.0 IANA (RESERVED-12) Norway 32.0.0.0 Norsk Informasjonsteknologi (NET-NORGESNETT) OH 33.0.0.0 DLA Systems Automation Center (NET-DCMC) TX 34.0.0.0 Halliburton Company (NET-HALLIBURTON) MI 35.0.0.0 Merit Network Inc. (NET-MERIT) CA 36.0.0.0 Stanford University (NET-SU-NET-TEMP) CA 37.0.0.0 Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) (RESERVED-37A) VA 38.0.0.0 Performance Systems International (NET-PSINETA) CA 39.0.0.0 Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) (RESERVED-39A) IN 40.0.0.0 Eli Lilly and Company (NET-LILLY-NET) CA 41.0.0.0 Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (RESERVED-41A) CA 42.0.0.0 Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) (RESERVED) (NET-RESERVED-42) Japan 43.0.0.0 Japan Inet (NET-JAPAN-A) CA 44.0.0.0 Amateur Radio Digital Communications (NET-AMPRNET) CA 45.0.0.0 Interop Show Network (NET-SHOWNETA) MA 46.0.0.0 Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc. (NET-BBNNET) Canada 47.0.0.0 Bell-Northern Research (NET-BNR) NY 48.0.0.0 Prudential Securities Inc. (NET-PRUBACHE) 49.0.0.0 No match for "49.0.0.0". 50.0.0.0 No match for "50.0.0.0". UK 51.0.0.0 Department of Social Security of UK (NET-ITSANET) DE 52.0.0.0 E.I. duPont de Nemours and Co., Inc. (NET-DUPONT1) Germany 53.0.0.0 cap debis ccs (NET-DB-NET2) NJ 54.0.0.0 Merck and Co., Inc. (NET-MERCK2) VA 55.0.0.0 Army National Guard Bureau (NET-RCAS2) NC 56.0.0.0 U.S. Postal Service (NET-USPS1) France 57.0.0.0 SITA-Societe Internationale de Telecommunications Aeronautiques (NET-SITA2) CA 58.0.0.0 Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) (RESERVED) (NET-RESERVED-58) CA 59.0.0.0 Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) (RESERVED) (NET-RESERVED-59) CA 60.0.0.0 Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) (RESERVED) (NET-RESERVED-60) CA 61.0.0.0 Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) (RESERVED) (NET-RESERVED-61) CA 62.0.0.0 Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) (RESERVED) (NET-RESERVED-62) CA 63.0.0.0 Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) (RESERVED) (NET-RESERVED-63) <...> @@@@@@@@@ This situation is similar to what happens when you convert a country from a government where the land is owned by the state to a situation where private ownership is allowed. There is a ONE-TIME chicken and egg problem that has to be solved. Once that occurs, then the free market dictates the rest. @ 2: This is a real world economy now, outdated academic practices which are @ currently being enforced are as wrong as the sale of IPs. @ The real world economy pre-dates the Internet by a few years... @ 3: Wether you, ARIN, or anyone else likes it or not, IPs are for all intents @ and purposes a resellable commodity, otherwise ARIN et all can (ala Jim @ Flemming) be called on as being a Monopoly. @ Again, ARIN is a local solution for an InterNIC/NSF/NSI/SAIC problem. I suggest that you study that situation and business restructuring. It is not in the best interest of the Internet to have obscur, complex, internal problems shape the future of the Global Internet. I suggest that you think global and act local. By local...I mean local to you...if you "own" [#1] IP addresses then you might want to lease [#2] them. If you lease them, then you might want to register[#3], resolve[#4], and route[#5] them. Some people will be involved in all 5 functions and some in only one of the functions. As owners [#1] step forward to start charging "rent", the people currently leasing the space without charge have several options... 1. Pay the rent 2. Buy the space 3. Find another place to homestead Prior art will determine who can sell the addresses. I suggest that people interested in these areas, carefully study that. @ 4: The simple fact of the matter is that the RFCs are not at any time, the @ law of the land. They are at best guidelines and good ideas set down for @ others to follow, but there is no rule stating that you _must_ follow them. @ The law of the land is the law of the land...most lawyers have never heard of an RFC...if you do not believe me just ask them... @ 5: Before you start chasing wild geese selling Class B address space I @ suggest you go back and check on all those folks that got space long before @ there were any 'restrictions and justifications'. I have no doubt that there @ is a veritable feast of IPs sitting unused at MIT, USC, and other such @ institutions that would be better used elsewhere instead of sitting in a @ corner like a dusty grad student. @ Those people are homesteading. When the "owners" of those spaces come knocking on their door for a rent check, then they will have to make some decisions. @ 6: Finally and most importantly, stop pretending you still live in the world @ of happy academia where everyone is willing to follow the rules you set down @ just because you're the proffessor and they're the student. This just does @ not work anymore, you may scoff at people like Jim Flemming but for each one @ you knock down there is another one to learn from his mistakes and take his @ place. Do not pretend you can sit idle and call people who don't fall in @ line behind you names so that you can sit back in your dusty chair and @ pretend nothing is wrong. The internet as a whole is growing at an unthought @ of pace and your failure to keep up will not be fixed by being tight assed @ and making it harder on those that follow. Eventually someone else will take @ the forefront and throw you off your high horse like yesterdays newspaper. @ You purport to be leaders of the internet, then its about time you acted @ like it and start to solve the problems instead of trying to make the @ problems go away by being ignorant of reality. @ The "world of happy academia" is not a place where people follow the rules. That is one of the reasons why many people like that world. They have tenure, they teach what they want, they post office hours as they like, they dress as they like, and they use the university and government supplied computers as they like. The commercial world follows the rules...the rules needed to bring order to the IPv4 address space are very simple.... -- Jim Fleming Unir Corporation e-mail: JimFleming@unety.net JimFleming@unety.s0.g0 (EDNS/IPv8)