Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know). Has anybody else seen this brain damage? Joe
I've seen requests for a drawing of some sort, but never specifically and exclusively visio. If they insist on visio, I would send them a LART (at high velocity) instead. -Randy ----- Original Message -----
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Has anybody else seen this brain damage?
Joe
Wow... talk about someone who doesn't want your business. Randy Carpenter wrote:
I've seen requests for a drawing of some sort, but never specifically and exclusively visio. If they insist on visio, I would send them a LART (at high velocity) instead.
-Randy
----- Original Message -----
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Has anybody else seen this brain damage?
Joe
-- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
On 9/28/12 11:08 AM, Joe Maimon wrote:
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Has anybody else seen this brain damage?
Hand draw two squares, label them "our AS" and "your AS" with a line between them labeled "GigE". Bonus points for pencil. ~Seth
And super duper bonus points is you draw pigeons carrying packets between the two blocks and stating that you are RFC 1149 compliant. -Mike On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Seth Mattinen <sethm@rollernet.us> wrote:
On 9/28/12 11:08 AM, Joe Maimon wrote:
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Has anybody else seen this brain damage?
Hand draw two squares, label them "our AS" and "your AS" with a line between them labeled "GigE". Bonus points for pencil.
~Seth
-- Mike Lyon 408-621-4826 mike.lyon@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlyon
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:22:14AM -0700, Mike Lyon wrote:
On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Seth Mattinen <sethm@rollernet.us> wrote:
On 9/28/12 11:08 AM, Joe Maimon wrote:
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Hand draw two squares, label them "our AS" and "your AS" with a line between them labeled "GigE". Bonus points for pencil.
And super duper bonus points is you draw pigeons carrying packets between the two blocks and stating that you are RFC 1149 compliant.
on a napkin. -- Jim Mercer Reptilian Research jim@reptiles.org +1 416 410-5633 "He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead"
Mike Lyon <mike.lyon@gmail.com> wrote: On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Seth Mattinen <sethm@rollernet.us> wrote:
On 9/28/12 11:08 AM, Joe Maimon wrote:
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Has anybody else seen this brain damage?
Hand draw two squares, label them "our AS" and "your AS" with a line between them labeled "GigE". Bonus points for pencil.
And super duper bonus points is you draw pigeons carrying packets between the two blocks and stating that you are RFC 1149 compliant.
No, no, *NO*!! The proper approach is to ask the vendor for RFC 1149 trasport for the BGP session, and whether it terminates in a shared cage, or if a fully private one is required. Including an 'envionmental impact statement'. Explaining that this info is required in order to produce an accurate Visio diagram.
Why not RFC 5514 over RFC 2410 encryption over RFC2549 enhanced RFC1149 with all sessions padded with a number (generated by a server compliant with RFC3091) of the packets described in RFC6592? Oh, and don't forget to set the bit described in RFC3514 as appropriate. Or, ya know, one could just draw up a quick document or a note stating the frivolous nature of such. Eric On 9/28/12, Robert Bonomi <bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com> wrote:
Mike Lyon <mike.lyon@gmail.com> wrote: On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:18 AM, Seth Mattinen <sethm@rollernet.us> wrote:
On 9/28/12 11:08 AM, Joe Maimon wrote:
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Has anybody else seen this brain damage?
Hand draw two squares, label them "our AS" and "your AS" with a line between them labeled "GigE". Bonus points for pencil.
And super duper bonus points is you draw pigeons carrying packets between the two blocks and stating that you are RFC 1149 compliant.
No, no, *NO*!!
The proper approach is to ask the vendor for RFC 1149 trasport for the BGP session, and whether it terminates in a shared cage, or if a fully private one is required. Including an 'envionmental impact statement'. Explaining that this info is required in order to produce an accurate Visio diagram.
-- Sent from my mobile device
On Sep 28, 2012, at 10:41 PM, Robert Bonomi <bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com> wrote:
<SNIP/> The proper approach is to ask the vendor for RFC 1149 trasport for the BGP session, and whether it terminates in a shared cage, or if a fully private one is required. Including an 'envionmental impact statement'. Explaining that this info is required in order to produce an accurate Visio diagram.
Ladies and gentlemen, it seems that we have a winner!
Just make sure to name the scanned file VisioDi~1_vsd.png, and maybe they won't notice. -Randy ----- Original Message -----
As a person who often draws out + scans diagrams, I support this message.
On 09/28/2012 01:18 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
Hand draw two squares, label them "our AS" and "your AS" with a line between them labeled "GigE". Bonus points for pencil.
~Seth
As a person who often draws out + scans diagrams, I support this message.
Hand draw two squares, label them "our AS" and "your AS" with a line between them labeled "GigE". Bonus points for pencil.
Exactly - hand draw it, scan it it in and save the .JPG/.PNG in a .VSD. There, it is "in Visio". It is Friday, yes? /TJ
On 28/09/2012 19:08, Joe Maimon wrote:
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Has anybody else seen this brain damage?
I was once asked by a vendor support department for a network diagram for a case which involved a standalone switch. I almost sent them a picture of a switch, but decided not as it might have confused the person handling the case. Here's a visio diagram you can send them: http://www.foobar.org/~nick/bgp-network-diagram.vsd Nick
On Fri, 2012-09-28 at 19:31 +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote:
Here's a visio diagram you can send them:
Is there a .png version of it somewhere? The whole thread made my day, I'm eager to see this diagram as well. I don't have this MS Visio thingy you all use to set up your Avian Carrier BGP sessions... Regards Dan -- Dan Luedtke http://www.danrl.de
Le mardi 02 octobre 2012 à 23:25 +0200, Dan Luedtke a écrit :
On Fri, 2012-09-28 at 19:31 +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote:
Here's a visio diagram you can send them:
Is there a .png version of it somewhere? The whole thread made my day, I'm eager to see this diagram as well. I don't have this MS Visio thingy you all use to set up your Avian Carrier BGP sessions...
Don't use ``MS Visio thingy'', prefer TeX with metapost, PGF/TikZ (or PSTRicks). The output is by far more beautiful, and maintaining the document much more slim. Cheers, mh
Regards
Dan
On 10/02/12 23:43 +0200, Michael Hallgren wrote:
Le mardi 02 octobre 2012 à 23:25 +0200, Dan Luedtke a écrit :
On Fri, 2012-09-28 at 19:31 +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote:
Here's a visio diagram you can send them:
Is there a .png version of it somewhere? The whole thread made my day, I'm eager to see this diagram as well. I don't have this MS Visio thingy you all use to set up your Avian Carrier BGP sessions...
Don't use ``MS Visio thingy'', prefer TeX with metapost, PGF/TikZ (or PSTRicks). The output is by far more beautiful, and maintaining the document much more slim.
I'd love to use something like metapost, but have yet to find any network diagram oriented libraries. Do you have any examples that you could recommend? -- Dan White
On Tue, 2 Oct 2012, Michael Hallgren wrote:
Le mardi 02 octobre 2012 à 23:25 +0200, Dan Luedtke a écrit :
On Fri, 2012-09-28 at 19:31 +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote:
Here's a visio diagram you can send them:
Is there a .png version of it somewhere? The whole thread made my day, I'm eager to see this diagram as well. I don't have this MS Visio thingy you all use to set up your Avian Carrier BGP sessions...
Don't use ``MS Visio thingy'', prefer TeX with metapost, PGF/TikZ (or PSTRicks). The output is by far more beautiful, and maintaining the document much more slim.
I still miss doing this stuff using gpic/groff. ;-) wfms
Just be happy they didn't ask for power point Sent from my iPhone On 2012-10-02, at 5:03 PM, "William F. Maton Sotomayor" <wmaton@ottix.net> wrote:
On Tue, 2 Oct 2012, Michael Hallgren wrote:
Le mardi 02 octobre 2012 à 23:25 +0200, Dan Luedtke a écrit :
On Fri, 2012-09-28 at 19:31 +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote:
Here's a visio diagram you can send them:
Is there a .png version of it somewhere? The whole thread made my day, I'm eager to see this diagram as well. I don't have this MS Visio thingy you all use to set up your Avian Carrier BGP sessions...
Don't use ``MS Visio thingy'', prefer TeX with metapost, PGF/TikZ (or PSTRicks). The output is by far more beautiful, and maintaining the document much more slim.
I still miss doing this stuff using gpic/groff. ;-)
wfms
The newest version of libreoffice draw can open Visio diagrams. --- Brian Raaen Zcorum On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Michael Hallgren <m.hallgren@free.fr> wrote:
Le mardi 02 octobre 2012 à 23:25 +0200, Dan Luedtke a écrit :
On Fri, 2012-09-28 at 19:31 +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote:
Here's a visio diagram you can send them:
Is there a .png version of it somewhere? The whole thread made my day, I'm eager to see this diagram as well. I don't have this MS Visio thingy you all use to set up your Avian Carrier BGP sessions...
Don't use ``MS Visio thingy'', prefer TeX with metapost, PGF/TikZ (or PSTRicks). The output is by far more beautiful, and maintaining the document much more slim.
Cheers, mh
Regards
Dan
On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:26 AM, Brian Christopher Raaen < mailing-lists@brianraaen.com> wrote: The newest version of libreoffice draw can open Visio diagrams. Also Microsoft does provide a free Visio plugin/viewer for Internet Explorer. http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?displaylang=en&id=21701 --- Brian Raaen Zcorum On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Michael Hallgren <m.hallgren@free.fr> wrote: Le mardi 02 octobre 2012 à 23:25 +0200, Dan Luedtke a écrit : On Fri, 2012-09-28 at 19:31 +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote: Here's a visio diagram you can send them: http://www.foobar.org/~nick/bgp-network-diagram.vsd Is there a .png version of it somewhere? The whole thread made my day, I'm eager to see this diagram as well. I don't have this MS Visio thingy you all use to set up your Avian Carrier BGP sessions... Don't use ``MS Visio thingy'', prefer TeX with metapost, PGF/TikZ (or PSTRicks). The output is by far more beautiful, and maintaining the document much more slim. Cheers, mh Regards Dan
Le mercredi 03 octobre 2012 à 07:31 -0400, Rodrick Brown a écrit :
On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:26 AM, Brian Christopher Raaen <mailing-lists@brianraaen.com> wrote:
The newest version of libreoffice draw can open Visio diagrams.
Also Microsoft does provide a free Visio plugin/viewer for Internet Explorer.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?displaylang=en&id=21701
Can you also edit/write using these? mh
--- Brian Raaen Zcorum
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Michael Hallgren <m.hallgren@free.fr> wrote:
Le mardi 02 octobre 2012 à 23:25 +0200, Dan Luedtke a écrit :
On Fri, 2012-09-28 at 19:31 +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote:
Here's a visio diagram you can send them:
Is there a .png version of it somewhere? The whole thread made my day, I'm eager to see this diagram as well. I don't have this MS Visio thingy you all use to set up your Avian Carrier BGP sessions...
Don't use ``MS Visio thingy'', prefer TeX with metapost, PGF/TikZ (or PSTRicks). The output is by far more beautiful, and maintaining the document much more slim.
Cheers, mh
Regards
Dan
On Fri, 28 Sep 2012, Joe Maimon wrote:
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Has anybody else seen this brain damage?
In my quaint little corner of the world, this was once fairly routine actually. It seems to have been more popular amonsgt the enterprise crowd than anything else.
Joe
wfms
Yo Joe! On Fri, 28 Sep 2012, Joe Maimon wrote:
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Network diagrams are required for PCI compliance. 1.1.2 Current network diagram with all connections to cardholder data, including any wireless networks A high-level network diagram (either obtained from the entity or created by assessor) of the entity’s networking topography that includes: - Connections into and out of the network - Critical components within the cardholder data environment, including POS devices, systems, databases, and web servers, as applicable - Other necessary payment components, as applicable RGDS GARY --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701 gem@rellim.com Tel:+1(541)382-8588
On Fri, 28 Sep 2012, Gary E. Miller wrote:
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Network diagrams are required for PCI compliance.
I can understand (and fully support) the need for customers to have detailed diagrams of their network for (insert-requirement-here) compliance, but a provider requiring a customer to supply a diagram for basic connectivity? Seems sketchy (no pun indended) to me. jms
On Fri, 28 Sep 2012, Joe Maimon wrote:
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Has anybody else seen this brain damage?
I can understand wanting to diagram a complex design, so everyone involved has a clear picture of what needs to happen, but for an ISP to bring up BGP to a customer? If that's not something that can be done in a relatively cookie-cutter fashion, there is something horribly broken with that ISP. My diagram would be something along the lines of your_router --------[GIG-E WITH BGP]-------- my_router = :) your_router --------[GIG-E WITH NO BGP]-------- my_router = :( jms
Justin M. Streiner wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2012, Joe Maimon wrote:
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Has anybody else seen this brain damage?
I can understand wanting to diagram a complex design, so everyone involved has a clear picture of what needs to happen, but for an ISP to bring up BGP to a customer? If that's not something that can be done in a relatively cookie-cutter fashion, there is something horribly broken with that ISP.
My diagram would be something along the lines of
your_router --------[GIG-E WITH BGP]-------- my_router = :)
your_router --------[GIG-E WITH NO BGP]-------- my_router = :(
jms
I figured they are expecting something other than cookie cutter, so I gave them a multi session + multi hop. 4 boxes with labels, 4 lines and some router commands in vendor 'C' language in a text box. If they dont like that, they can provide me with their own diagram. Someone did mention that perhaps its a vetting/hoop-jumping process. My takeaway is that it is always easier to not accept the circuit until BGP is up, rather then saving that for a step 2. Joe
On 9/28/2012 1:08 PM, Joe Maimon wrote:
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Has anybody else seen this brain damage?
Joe
Regardless of all the other comments here making fun of the request, I can somewhat understand why they might do this. Some of the requests I have gotten from customers are so misguided and confusing that a simple diagram can go far to clear things up. I know it seems crazy to everyone here that can set up BGP peering in their sleep, but when you're getting a new request from someone who hasn't gotten an ASN yet, and has never heard of a routing registry? All they know is a consultant told them they needed to "do BGP" with their ISP? Jason
Jason Baugher wrote:
On 9/28/2012 1:08 PM, Joe Maimon wrote:
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Has anybody else seen this brain damage? Regardless of all the other comments here making fun of the request, I can somewhat understand why they might do this. Some of the requests I have gotten from customers are so misguided and confusing that a simple diagram can go far to clear things up. I know it seems crazy to everyone here that can set up BGP peering in their sleep, but when you're getting a new request from someone who hasn't gotten an ASN yet, and has never heard of a routing registry? All they know is a consultant told them they needed to "do BGP" with their ISP?
Isn't it a role of sales engineering/support to help customers through this process? I know that, if a vendor told me that I had to jump through hoops to do business with them, I'd be complaining to my sales rep., and looking for another vendor. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
I agree. Perhaps the ISP goes a little above and beyond most, and will provide configuration assistance to the downstream if they have issues. Useful info they might want to see on the diagram could be your AS (duh), ASes downstream from you, are you multihomed, and with who, what prefixes and or communities would you want? Sure this info can be put in a text form, but a diagram can help the ISP understand what the customer is wanting to do, and can get a clue-level about the customer from such documentation. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Jason Baugher [mailto:jason@thebaughers.com] Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 5:59 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: RFC becomes Visio On 9/28/2012 1:08 PM, Joe Maimon wrote:
Just got told by a Lightpath person that in order to do BGP on a customer gig circuit to them they would need a visio diagram (of what I dont know).
Has anybody else seen this brain damage?
Joe
Regardless of all the other comments here making fun of the request, I can somewhat understand why they might do this. Some of the requests I have gotten from customers are so misguided and confusing that a simple diagram can go far to clear things up. I know it seems crazy to everyone here that can set up BGP peering in their sleep, but when you're getting a new request from someone who hasn't gotten an ASN yet, and has never heard of a routing registry? All they know is a consultant told them they needed to "do BGP" with their ISP? Jason
On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 1:58 AM, Jason Baugher <jason@thebaughers.com> wrote:
All they know is a consultant told them they needed to "do BGP" with their ISP?
what kind of consultant throws away the great billable hours that "design, configure, deploy, and test BGP session(s)" gives?! pretty sure I lived on setting up BGP sessions exclusively in '09... silly
participants (28)
-
Aaron Glenn -
Brian Christopher Raaen -
Bruce A. Mah -
Chuck Church -
Cutler James R -
Dan Luedtke -
Dan White -
Eric Adler -
Gary E. Miller -
Jason Baugher -
Jim Mercer -
Joe Maimon -
Justin M. Streiner -
Mark Gauvin -
Michael Hallgren -
Mike Lyon -
Miles Fidelman -
Nick Hilliard -
Nikolay Shopik -
Randy Carpenter -
Rhys Rhaven -
Richard Porter -
Robert Bonomi -
Rodrick Brown -
Seth Mattinen -
TJ -
Valdis.Kletnieks＠vt.edu -
William F. Maton Sotomayor