It is interesting how people perceive things differently. I didn't think Bob was harsh. Bob's opening sentence "The NANOG is our best bet for managing through the Internet's coming collapses" struck me as very positive. Some of his points were inadequately stated however. For example, the title "Techies, doers must join forces to help weave the Internet's new clothes" implies that the non-techies are the real "doers". If one reads between the lines, perhaps he is saying that there are still some Internet business model issues (MLPAs, settlement agreements, etc.) to address in the new Internet model. And clearly there are still some non-technical issues here. But he didn't come out and say that. As for his point about unpolished speakers, and the booting laptops comments etc. I think these are simply reflective of the working nature of the NANOG meeting. We are not formal here. We are not marketing here. We are judged on the technical content of the presentations. We are all in the same boat, working to identify and solve the most pressing technical problems. And we all have a stake in the stability and reliability of the Internet. Flashy presentations may impress the suits, but make the technical folks suspicious. Bryan Beecher once told me that the fancier the graphics, the grander the lies. (I guess that makes InterOp the site of the grandest lies then.) The point is, I think Bob was harping on something that is *not* a bad thing. BTW - I was assuming he was trying to be humorous with his 'bring on the executives and T-shirt' comment. Bill ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- William Norton <wbn@merit.edu> (313) 936-2656