This report has been generated at Fri Nov 12 21:44:35 2004 AEST. The report analyses the BGP Routing Table of an AS4637 (Reach) router and generates a report on aggregation potential within the table. Check http://www.cidr-report.org/as4637 for a current version of this report. Recent Table History Date Prefixes CIDR Agg 05-11-04 156315 103806 06-11-04 156228 103992 07-11-04 156318 103854 08-11-04 156312 102177 09-11-04 148311 102028 10-11-04 148405 102407 11-11-04 148646 102468 12-11-04 148794 102646 AS Summary 18360 Number of ASes in routing system 7492 Number of ASes announcing only one prefix 1406 Largest number of prefixes announced by an AS AS7018 : ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services 86853120 Largest address span announced by an AS (/32s) AS721 : DNIC DoD Network Information Center Aggregation Summary The algorithm used in this report proposes aggregation only when there is a precise match using the AS path, so as to preserve traffic transit policies. Aggregation is also proposed across non-advertised address space ('holes'). --- 12Nov04 --- ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description Table 148874 102650 46224 31.0% All ASes AS18566 751 6 745 99.2% CVAD Covad Communications AS4134 825 178 647 78.4% CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street AS4323 794 223 571 71.9% TWTC Time Warner Telecom AS7018 1406 1002 404 28.7% ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services AS6197 814 430 384 47.2% BNS-14 BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS22773 401 17 384 95.8% CXA Cox Communications Inc. AS27364 413 45 368 89.1% ARMC Armstrong Cable Services AS701 1230 884 346 28.1% UU UUNET Technologies, Inc. AS22909 412 81 331 80.3% CMCS Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. AS6478 426 98 328 77.0% ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services AS1239 930 620 310 33.3% SPRN Sprint AS17676 372 63 309 83.1% JPNIC-JP-ASN-BLOCK Japan Network Information Center AS9929 335 33 302 90.1% CNCNET-CN China Netcom Corp. AS7843 497 208 289 58.1% ADELPH-13 Adelphia Corp. AS4355 384 99 285 74.2% ERSD EARTHLINK, INC AS4766 531 268 263 49.5% KIXS-AS-KR Korea Telecom AS14654 261 6 255 97.7% WAYPOR-3 Wayport AS21502 253 3 250 98.8% ASN-NUMERICABLE NUMERICABLE is a cabled network in France, AS9443 358 109 249 69.6% INTERNETPRIMUS-AS-AP Primus Telecommunications AS15557 361 121 240 66.5% LDCOMNET LDCOM NETWORKS AS6140 370 133 237 64.1% IMPSA ImpSat AS721 1023 792 231 22.6% DNIC DoD Network Information Center AS2386 849 620 229 27.0% ADCS-1 AT&T Data Communications Services AS25844 244 16 228 93.4% SASMFL-2 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP AS1221 801 578 223 27.8% ASN-TELSTRA Telstra Pty Ltd AS6198 435 221 214 49.2% BNS-14 BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS4814 208 6 202 97.1% CHINA169-BBN CNCGROUP IP network¡ªChina169 Beijing Broadband Network AS5668 414 223 191 46.1% CIH-12 CenturyTel Internet Holdings, Inc. AS15270 226 36 190 84.1% PDP-14 PaeTec.net -a division of PaeTecCommunications, Inc. AS6517 300 116 184 61.3% YIPS Yipes Communications, Inc. Total 16624 7235 9389 56.5% Top 30 total Possible Bogus Routes 24.138.80.0/20 AS11260 AHSICHCL Andara High Speed Internet c/o Halifax Cable Ltd. 24.246.0.0/17 AS7018 ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services 24.246.38.0/24 AS25994 NPGCAB NPG Cable, INC 24.246.128.0/18 AS7018 ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services 64.46.27.0/24 AS8674 NETNOD-IX Netnod Internet Exchange Sverige AB 64.57.160.0/19 AS3561 CWU Cable & Wireless USA 64.92.128.0/19 AS3561 CWU Cable & Wireless USA 64.127.0.0/18 AS7018 ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services 64.209.192.0/18 AS3561 CWU Cable & Wireless USA 69.26.32.0/19 AS17307 VIRTEL-15 Virtela Communications 132.0.0.0/10 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 137.0.0.0/13 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 138.136.0.0/13 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 158.0.0.0/13 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 192.30.93.0/24 AS17757 HPAUS-AP HP Australia 192.30.94.0/24 AS17757 HPAUS-AP HP Australia 192.30.127.0/24 AS719 LANLINK Elisa Oyj 192.40.105.0/24 AS5515 SONERA-GLOBAL-IP Sonera Solution Autonomous System 192.44.0.0/19 AS702 AS702 MCI EMEA - Commercial IP service provider in Europe 192.70.164.0/24 AS25689 NRCC-2 National Research Council of Canada 192.81.182.0/24 AS719 LANLINK Elisa Oyj 192.81.183.0/24 AS719 LANLINK Elisa Oyj 192.81.184.0/24 AS719 LANLINK Elisa Oyj 192.119.135.0/24 AS270 NASA National Aeronautics and Space Administration 192.124.252.0/22 AS680 DFN-IP service G-WiN 192.133.6.0/24 AS4004 GLOBALONE-EQUANT-UK Equant UK & Greece Autonomous System 192.135.50.0/24 AS7018 ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services 192.153.144.0/21 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 192.172.0.0/19 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 192.188.208.0/20 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 192.243.32.0/23 AS2044 PALINA Palin Aquisitions Inc. 196.2.95.0/24 AS8668 TELONE-AS TelOne Zimbabwe P/L 198.23.26.0/24 AS4390 BELLAT-7 Bell Atlantic, Inc. 198.97.72.0/21 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 198.97.80.0/20 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 198.97.88.0/24 AS89 NUSC-1 Naval Underwater Systems Center 198.97.240.0/20 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 198.97.247.0/24 AS3475 DEPART-52 Department of the Navy 198.101.4.0/22 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 198.136.32.0/20 AS19329 MCBCC Martin County Board of County Commissioners 198.144.32.0/19 AS3998 CITY CityNet, Inc. 198.161.87.0/24 AS6539 GTGR GT Group Telecom Services Corp. 198.161.165.0/24 AS852 AGTA Telus Advanced Communications 198.163.155.0/24 AS684 MRN Manitoba Regional Network 198.167.0.0/16 AS7456 INS-51 Interhop Network SERVICES Inc. 198.167.163.0/24 AS15290 ACCA-2 Allstream Corp. Corporation Allstream 198.168.0.0/16 AS701 UU UUNET Technologies, Inc. 198.169.0.0/16 AS803 SASK SaskTel 198.232.133.0/24 AS23075 SKOTOS Skotos Tech, Inc 199.10.0.0/16 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.60.0.0/20 AS271 UBC-3 University of British Columbia 199.96.44.0/23 AS19092 360NE-1 360Networks (USA) Inc. 199.96.46.0/24 AS19092 360NE-1 360Networks (USA) Inc. 199.114.0.0/18 AS568 DISOUN DISO-UNRRA 199.114.0.0/21 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.128.0/18 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.130.0/24 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.132.0/24 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.134.0/24 AS1913 DLA-8 Defense Logistics Agency 199.114.136.0/24 AS1913 DLA-8 Defense Logistics Agency 199.114.138.0/24 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.140.0/24 AS3544 DISAUN DISA/UNRRA 199.114.142.0/24 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.148.0/24 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.150.0/24 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.114.152.0/24 AS1913 DLA-8 Defense Logistics Agency 199.114.154.0/24 AS1733 ADP-41 AF DDN PMO 199.114.156.0/24 AS1913 DLA-8 Defense Logistics Agency 199.114.160.0/24 AS1733 ADP-41 AF DDN PMO 199.120.32.0/19 AS16582 NXLI NEXTLEVEL INTERNET, INC. 199.121.0.0/16 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.123.0.0/18 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.123.16.0/20 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.123.80.0/21 AS721 DNIC DoD Network Information Center 199.189.32.0/19 AS7332 IQUEST IQuest Internet 199.197.8.0/22 AS21814 PARSON-18 Parsons Corp. 199.202.0.0/16 AS701 UU UUNET Technologies, Inc. 202.47.1.0/24 AS7491 PI-PH-AS-AP PI-PHILIPINES 202.70.28.0/24 AS4515 ERX-STAR Star Internet Services Ltd. 202.72.64.0/21 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.64.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.65.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.66.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.67.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.68.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.69.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.70.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.71.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.72.0/21 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.72.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.73.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.74.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.75.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.76.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.77.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.78.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.72.79.0/24 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 202.73.128.0/22 AS4058 LINKAGENET-AP CPCNet Hong Kong Ltd. 202.93.0.0/20 AS4134 CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street 202.160.128.0/23 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.131.0/24 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.132.0/22 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.136.0/22 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.142.0/24 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.144.0/24 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.145.0/24 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.146.0/24 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.147.0/24 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.148.0/22 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.156.0/23 AS9282 LEXICON-AS Lexicon Systems Pty Ltd 202.160.158.0/23 AS17642 RDSL-NATIONAL-AS Request Broadband BGP AS number 202.164.128.0/19 AS9654 CYBERSPACE-AP P/H Padilla Bldg., Emerald Avenue 202.164.224.0/19 AS7599 IPXC-AS-AP IP Exchange 203.32.4.0/23 AS7617 203.62.0.0/17 AS7572 AARNET-ACT-RNO Australian Academic and Reasearch Network (AARNet) 203.84.192.0/19 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 203.84.192.0/20 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 203.84.208.0/20 AS17433 PHILWEB-AP PhilWeb.Com, Inc. 203.99.0.0/19 AS17746 ORCONINTERNET-NZ-AP Orcon Internet 203.170.14.0/23 AS6648 ASN-SKYINTERNET Autonomous System Number peering of Sky Internet - BAYANTEL Inc. - Philppines 203.210.69.0/24 AS17536 PRODIGY-AS-AP Prodidgy Telecommunications 204.154.125.0/24 AS3952 TELLAB-1 TELLABS Operations, Inc. 204.154.126.0/24 AS3952 TELLAB-1 TELLABS Operations, Inc. 204.154.127.0/24 AS3952 TELLAB-1 TELLABS Operations, Inc. 204.194.110.0/23 AS30653 EXOBI Exobit Networks Inc. 205.150.0.0/15 AS701 UU UUNET Technologies, Inc. 206.167.57.0/24 AS376 RISQR-3 Reseau Interordinateurs Scientique Quebecois (RISQ) 206.191.64.0/18 AS15290 ACCA-2 Allstream Corp. Corporation Allstream 206.251.69.0/24 AS27429 TIL-33 Telesat International Ltd. 206.253.190.0/23 AS8123 POLYBA Polybase 207.47.254.0/24 AS701 UU UUNET Technologies, Inc. 207.231.96.0/19 AS11194 NUNETI NuNet Inc 208.81.187.0/24 AS19194 SNL-8 Sentris Network LLC 209.172.0.0/18 AS7770 TRTI Triton Technologies, Inc. 209.205.69.0/24 AS21578 Universidad autonoma de Bucaramanga 209.205.70.0/24 AS21578 Universidad autonoma de Bucaramanga 209.205.81.0/24 AS15066 SkyNet de Colombia S.A. 209.205.82.0/24 AS15066 SkyNet de Colombia S.A. 209.205.84.0/24 AS15066 SkyNet de Colombia S.A. 209.213.32.0/19 AS10629 INS-52 Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.48.0/24 AS10629 INS-52 Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.49.0/24 AS10629 INS-52 Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.213.50.0/24 AS10629 INS-52 Inter-Pacific Network Services 209.251.0.0/19 AS11036 SISCOM-1 SISCOM, Inc 216.37.110.0/23 AS4264 CERFN California Education and Research Federation Network 216.96.128.0/18 AS7018 ATTW AT&T WorldNet Services 216.145.156.0/24 AS20304 JIS-32 JVLNET Internet Services 216.145.158.0/24 AS20304 JIS-32 JVLNET Internet Services 216.145.176.0/21 AS20304 JIS-32 JVLNET Internet Services 216.145.177.0/24 AS20304 JIS-32 JVLNET Internet Services 216.145.178.0/24 AS20304 JIS-32 JVLNET Internet Services 216.145.184.0/21 AS10758 INWAVE INWave Internet, Inc 216.145.200.0/21 AS20304 JIS-32 JVLNET Internet Services 216.171.96.0/20 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.186.151.0/24 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.186.152.0/21 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.186.160.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.186.164.0/22 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.186.192.0/22 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.186.198.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications 216.186.248.0/23 AS3356 LEVEL3 Level 3 Communications Please see http://www.cidr-report.org for the full report ------------------------------------ Copies of this report are mailed to: nanog@merit.edu eof-list@ripe.net apops@apops.net routing-wg@ripe.net afnog@afnog.org swinog@swinog.ch
ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description
AS18566 751 6 745 99.2% CVAD Covad Communications AS4134 825 178 647 78.4% CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street AS4323 794 223 571 71.9% TWTC Time Warner Telecom AS6197 814 430 384 47.2% BNS-14 BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS22773 401 17 384 95.8% CXA Cox Communications Inc. AS27364 413 45 368 89.1% ARMC Armstrong Cable Services AS701 1230 884 346 28.1% UU UUNET Technologies, Inc. AS22909 412 81 331 80.3% CMCS Comcast Cable Communications, Inc.
are these numbers what i think, but hope not, they are? e.g. is AS18566 the origin AS for 751 prefixes that could be collapsed to 6? if not, then perhaps the report could use some work. if so, then o why are providers indulging is such extremely sick behavior o and who can hack the perl to generate filters for this so we can listen only to the aggregates randy
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Randy Bush wrote:
ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description
AS18566 751 6 745 99.2% CVAD Covad Communications AS4134 825 178 647 78.4% CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street AS4323 794 223 571 71.9% TWTC Time Warner Telecom AS6197 814 430 384 47.2% BNS-14 BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS22773 401 17 384 95.8% CXA Cox Communications Inc. AS27364 413 45 368 89.1% ARMC Armstrong Cable Services AS701 1230 884 346 28.1% UU UUNET Technologies, Inc. AS22909 412 81 331 80.3% CMCS Comcast Cable Communications, Inc.
are these numbers what i think, but hope not, they are?
e.g. is AS18566 the origin AS for 751 prefixes that could be collapsed to 6?
if not, then perhaps the report could use some work.
if so, then o why are providers indulging is such extremely sick behavior
not to justify the expense, but perhaps covad is renumbering from one block to another? Looking at their advertisments I see lots of /23 or /24 blocks inside their larger covering routes... So either they deaggregated to renumber more gracefully, or they forgot their prefix-list outbound to williams and exodus ? perhaps covad can explain? or silently cover up the 'mistake' (which is acceptable as well...)
ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description
AS18566 751 6 745 99.2% CVAD Covad Communications AS4134 825 178 647 78.4% CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street AS4323 794 223 571 71.9% TWTC Time Warner Telecom AS6197 814 430 384 47.2% BNS-14 BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS22773 401 17 384 95.8% CXA Cox Communications Inc. AS27364 413 45 368 89.1% ARMC Armstrong Cable Services AS701 1230 884 346 28.1% UU UUNET Technologies, Inc. AS22909 412 81 331 80.3% CMCS Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. e.g. is AS18566 the origin AS for 751 prefixes that could be
collapsed to 6?
not to justify the expense, but perhaps covad is renumbering from one block to another? Looking at their advertisments I see lots of /23 or /24 blocks inside their larger covering routes... So either they deaggregated to renumber more gracefully, or they forgot their prefix-list outbound to williams and exodus ?
perhaps covad can explain? or silently cover up the 'mistake' (which is acceptable as well...)
it's not just covad. they're just such an egregious case among many socially and technically irresponsible polluters. randy
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Randy Bush wrote:
ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description
AS18566 751 6 745 99.2% CVAD Covad Communications AS4134 825 178 647 78.4% CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street AS4323 794 223 571 71.9% TWTC Time Warner Telecom AS6197 814 430 384 47.2% BNS-14 BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS22773 401 17 384 95.8% CXA Cox Communications Inc. AS27364 413 45 368 89.1% ARMC Armstrong Cable Services AS701 1230 884 346 28.1% UU UUNET Technologies, Inc. AS22909 412 81 331 80.3% CMCS Comcast Cable Communications, Inc. e.g. is AS18566 the origin AS for 751 prefixes that could be
collapsed to 6?
not to justify the expense, but perhaps covad is renumbering from one block to another? Looking at their advertisments I see lots of /23 or /24 blocks inside their larger covering routes... So either they deaggregated to renumber more gracefully, or they forgot their prefix-list outbound to williams and exodus ?
perhaps covad can explain? or silently cover up the 'mistake' (which is acceptable as well...)
it's not just covad. they're just such an egregious case among many socially and technically irresponsible polluters.
eh, since I singled out covad: (and I feel bad for it now) what about for COX? what about for UU (doh, thats me...or our tac or something, I'll look/ask), what about Comcast? and TWTC? ArmStrong? Of these listed 4 are cable companies, is there something in the cable modem networking that requires deaggregated routes beyond their borders? Is the problem that they might have seperate 'networks' for their regional parts and leak more specifics for these parts along with 'backup' routes via aggregates? -Chris
On Sat, Nov 13, 2004 at 03:31:26AM +0000, Christopher L. Morrow wrote: [snip]
Of these listed 4 are cable companies, is there something in the cable modem networking that requires deaggregated routes beyond their borders?
No, for the general statement about 'cable modem networking'.
Is the problem that they might have seperate 'networks' for their regional parts and leak more specifics for these parts along with 'backup' routes via aggregates?
This is trivial to do only as far as your $s carry. Aggregate draws the traffic, then NO_EXPORT-tagged longest-match carries the regionalized traffic. Folks do this as a 'best exit' approach between peer netwworks all the time. If you are suggesting disjoint, unconnected islands, then they should be separate ASNs for sane paths; see charter's islands, the pre-271 refleif ILEC LATA-bound islands, etc. -- RSUC / GweepNet / Spunk / FnB / Usenix / SAGE
You have jumped to the conclusion that a customer of the cable company is not multi-homed. Bad assumption. I can tell you that there are multihomed customers behind what you would normally think of as a cable company. Roy Engehausen -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Christopher L. Morrow Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 7:31 PM To: Randy Bush Cc: cidr-report@potaroo.net; nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: The Cidr Report .... Of these listed 4 are cable companies, is there something in the cable modem networking that requires deaggregated routes beyond their borders? Is the problem that they might have seperate 'networks' for their regional parts and leak more specifics for these parts along with 'backup' routes via aggregates? ....
On Nov 13, 2004, at 10:18 AM, Roy wrote:
You have jumped to the conclusion that a customer of the cable company is not multi-homed. Bad assumption. I can tell you that there are multihomed customers behind what you would normally think of as a cable company.
You have assumed that they assumed. Bad assumption. Most of those deaggregated CIDRs do not show up behind any other AS. Nor are they in another AS. If they are multi-homed, at least one, and hopefully both of those properties would hold. -- TTFN, patrick
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004, Roy wrote:
You have jumped to the conclusion that a customer of the cable company is not multi-homed. Bad assumption. I can tell you that there are multihomed customers behind what you would normally think of as a cable company.
I'm not sure I did jump to that conclusion, and most (all?) of the prefixes I looked at (quickly as they scrolled) had an originating ASN of 18665 or whichever was covad. Either way, that would account for a few, not all, of their deaggregated routes.
Roy Engehausen
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Christopher L. Morrow Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 7:31 PM To: Randy Bush Cc: cidr-report@potaroo.net; nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: The Cidr Report
....
Of these listed 4 are cable companies, is there something in the cable modem networking that requires deaggregated routes beyond their borders? Is the problem that they might have seperate 'networks' for their regional parts and leak more specifics for these parts along with 'backup' routes via aggregates?
....
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 02:47:30PM -0800, Randy Bush wrote:
ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description
AS18566 751 6 745 99.2% CVAD Covad Communications
are these numbers what i think, but hope not, they are?
e.g. is AS18566 the origin AS for 751 prefixes that could be collapsed to 6?
Sort of - from here it looks like they aren't actually announcing the supernets.
o and who can hack the perl to generate filters for this so we can listen only to the aggregates
I don't see their stuff listed in the radb, so it looks like you have to go to the router itself to read the routes to determine what they are announcing, then ask the appropriate registry which block they are announcing from, aggregate the routes in that block, rinse and repeat, aggregate the aggregated blocks, then filter. ..but that only works if they announce the supernets. Without that I'm not sure what you can do that wouldn't end up biting you back. It's also a lot of work for not too much reward as long as these messes are the exception and not the rule. Plus the public hand slap is kind of amusing. But that's probably just me. Austin
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 04:23:29PM -0800, Austin Schutz wrote:
ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description
AS18566 751 6 745 99.2% CVAD Covad Communications
are these numbers what i think, but hope not, they are?
e.g. is AS18566 the origin AS for 751 prefixes that could be collapsed to 6?
Sort of - from here it looks like they aren't actually announcing the supernets.
So you don't see: 64.105.0.0/16 66.134.0.0/16 66.166.0.0/15 67.100.0.0/14 68.164.0.0/14 69.3.0.0/16 ?
I don't see their stuff listed in the radb,
They actually did register all that more-specific crap (determined by checking some 10 samples), so they do this fully intentional. Well, it boils down that if you have enough customers, you seem to get away with about any antisocial behaviour on the net.
Plus the public hand slap is kind of amusing. But that's probably just me.
The problem is that they probably couldn't care less. There is no public sanctioning and pressure. Regards, Daniel -- CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr@cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004, Daniel Roesen wrote:
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 04:23:29PM -0800, Austin Schutz wrote:
ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description
AS18566 751 6 745 99.2% CVAD Covad Communications
are these numbers what i think, but hope not, they are?
e.g. is AS18566 the origin AS for 751 prefixes that could be collapsed to 6?
Sort of - from here it looks like they aren't actually announcing the supernets.
So you don't see: 64.105.0.0/16 66.134.0.0/16 66.166.0.0/15 67.100.0.0/14 68.164.0.0/14 69.3.0.0/16
?
there are still places on the net that do odd-ball filtering... perhaps he lives in one? (or nets from one?) (he being austin...)
Plus the public hand slap is kind of amusing. But that's probably just me.
The problem is that they probably couldn't care less. There is no public sanctioning and pressure.
and like I said, they MIGHT have a valid reason for this. I seem to remember a cable company a few months back doing this during a renumber, or some migration... I was hoping Covad would stand up, or someone who knows more (and has less of an axe to grind?), and set the record straight. Or, 'just make it go away' and leave randy/daniel/austin to wonder what happened :) Either way, so long as it stops, right?
Daniel Roesen writes:
Well, it boils down that if you have enough customers, you seem to get away with about any antisocial behaviour on the net.
You don't need to have many customers, it's just more fun if you have a larger space that you can deaggregate. Since everybody stopped filtering you can deaggregate everything into /24s today and get away with it. So as soon as you have a /23 you can play. And there are just too many "valid reasons" to resist. Around here most ISPs, when they announce new customer routes, send mail to their peers saying "we will announce these prefixes under these paths, please update your filters". I often respond with a friendly note that we will filter this or that prefix because it's a more specific of a PA prefix (which we will actually do, although it doesn't matter that much since we always have a fallback). Sometimes I offer to put in a temporary (usually a year) filter exception so that they can renumber their new customer into aggregatable space. It doesn't help often, but sometimes it does. "Think globally, act locally." -- Simon.
e.g. is AS18566 the origin AS for 751 prefixes that could be collapsed to 6?
Sort of - from here it looks like they aren't actually announcing the supernets.
The covering /162, /15 and /14 aggregates are being globally announced, and the more specifics are being announced from the same origin AS, apparently along the same AS paths as the specifics, so its not clear that there is any form of traffic engineering or load balancing going on. regards, Geoff
o and who can hack the perl to generate filters for this so we can listen only to the aggregates
I don't see their stuff listed in the radb, so it looks like you have to go to the router itself to read the routes to determine what they are announcing, then ask the appropriate registry which block they are announcing from, aggregate the routes in that block, rinse and repeat, aggregate the aggregated blocks, then filter. ..but that only works if they announce the supernets. Without that I'm not sure what you can do that wouldn't end up biting you back. It's also a lot of work for not too much reward as long as these messes are the exception and not the rule.
Plus the public hand slap is kind of amusing. But that's probably just me.
Austin
At 02:47 PM 12-11-04 -0800, Randy Bush wrote:
ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description
AS18566 751 6 745 99.2% CVAD Covad Communications AS4134 825 178 647 78.4% CHINANET-BACKBONE No.31,Jin-rong Street AS4323 794 223 571 71.9% TWTC Time Warner Telecom AS6197 814 430 384 47.2% BNS-14 BellSouth Network Solutions, Inc AS22773 401 17 384 95.8% CXA Cox Communications Inc. AS27364 413 45 368 89.1% ARMC Armstrong Cable Services AS701 1230 884 346 28.1% UU UUNET Technologies, Inc. AS22909 412 81 331 80.3% CMCS Comcast Cable Communications, Inc.
are these numbers what i think, but hope not, they are?
e.g. is AS18566 the origin AS for 751 prefixes that could be collapsed to 6?
Barry and me tried: http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0302/cidr.html Covad was first contacted Aug 2002:
ASnum NetsNow NetsCIDR NetGain % Gain Description AS18566 264 4 260 98.5% COVAD Covad Communications
But Covad was just one. I used to quietly contact these "pollutors" along with a few others who helped out (Barry and Terry) but as of a year ago I'm giving my 5-10 hours of volunteerism per month to nsp-sec. -Hank
if not, then perhaps the report could use some work.
if so, then o why are providers indulging is such extremely sick behavior o and who can hack the perl to generate filters for this so we can listen only to the aggregates
randy
At 09:47 AM 13/11/2004, Randy Bush wrote:
ASnum NetsNow NetsAggr NetGain % Gain Description
AS18566 751 6 745 99.2% CVAD Covad Communications
are these numbers what i think, but hope not, they are?
e.g. is AS18566 the origin AS for 751 prefixes that could be collapsed to 6?
yup - see http://www.cidr-report.org/cgi-bin/as-report?as=AS18566&view=4637
if not, then perhaps the report could use some work.
I'm more than happy to do further work on this report to improve its accuracy and helpfulness to the operator community, but in this case I'm not sure what such work would be, as I believe that the report is accurate about the potential level of prefix removal at a global BGP level. Geoff
participants (11)
-
Austin Schutz -
Christopher L. Morrow -
cidr-report＠potaroo.net -
Daniel Roesen -
Geoff Huston
-
Hank Nussbacher -
Joe Provo -
Patrick W Gilmore -
Randy Bush -
Roy -
Simon Leinen