Re: US Warships jamming Lebanon Internet
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 01:42:42 George Herbert wrote:
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Ryan Wilkins <ryan@deadfrog.net> wrote:
On Feb 7, 2011, at 4:06 PM, Michael Painter wrote:
Hi Denys I doubt it's intentional jamming since I've had the same problem. Aegis radar is very high power in full radiate mode and as such creates problems for Low Noise Amplifiers listening at 3.4-4.2 GHz. Someone needs to talk to Microwave Filter Company. http://www.microwavefilter.com/c-band_radar_elimination.htm
--Michael
+1 for Microwave Filter. They've helped me out in a couples jams before. They're very responsive and the products are good, too.
I think people in San Diego and near Norfolk, VA have the same problems.
The C-band frequencies are 2x those of the S-band (4-8 GHz for C, 2-4 GHz for S); if the SPY-1 / SPY-1D radar is frequency hopping it may well step on someone's C-band links at twice the radar's basic frequency. Just need a filter to remove actual S-band frequencies from C-band feeds. I try to install C-Band bandpass filter, no effect at all, so it is in-band interference. Putting foil (yes i try almost everything) near LNB doesn't affect interference level too.
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
I try to install C-Band bandpass filter, no effect at all, so it is in-band interference. Putting foil (yes i try almost everything) near LNB doesn't affect interference level too.
Can you get access to some kind of spectrum analyser kit to see what the kind of interference is? Adrian
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
I try to install C-Band bandpass filter, no effect at all, so it is in-band
interference. Putting foil (yes i try almost everything) near LNB doesn't affect interference level too.
Can you get access to some kind of spectrum analyser kit to see what the kind of interference is?
Adrian Yes, on short (few minutes) sweeps it is clean. During long time run, with 100 Khz resolution, if we run few hours we can catch anomalies on the carrier. Important note: this snapshot done on spectrum analyser in Europe, same
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 14:18:59 Adrian Chadd wrote: transponder, and results similar, so it looks like interference is on transponder. Issue start to affect us at same time when people in Lebanon got local interference issues. Here is snapshot of carrier spectrum with anomaly: http//www.nuclearcat.com/PICTURES/interference.jpg
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
I try to install C-Band bandpass filter, no effect at all, so it is in-band
interference. Putting foil (yes i try almost everything) near LNB doesn't affect interference level too.
Can you get access to some kind of spectrum analyser kit to see what the kind of interference is?
Adrian Yes, on short (few minutes) sweeps it is clean. During long time run, with 100 Khz resolution, if we run few hours we can catch anomalies on the carrier. Important note: this snapshot done on spectrum analyser in Europe, same
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 14:18:59 Adrian Chadd wrote: transponder, and results similar, so it looks like interference is on transponder. Issue start to affect us at same time when people in Lebanon got local interference issues.
Here is snapshot of carrier spectrum with anomaly: http//www.nuclearcat.com/PICTURES/interference.jpg
And does this interference similarly screw up being able to RX data from the transponder whilst in Europe? (eg, if you stick a modem on RX-only in Europe (ie, no uplink) and then just lock onto the signal and decode whatever happens, do you suffer the same problem?) Adrian -- - Xenion - http://www.xenion.com.au/ - VPS Hosting - Commercial Squid Support - - $24/pm+GST entry-level VPSes w/ capped bandwidth charges available in WA -
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 14:41:29 Adrian Chadd wrote:
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 14:18:59 Adrian Chadd wrote:
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
I try to install C-Band bandpass filter, no effect at all, so it is in-band
interference. Putting foil (yes i try almost everything) near LNB doesn't affect interference level too.
Can you get access to some kind of spectrum analyser kit to see what the kind of interference is?
Adrian
Yes, on short (few minutes) sweeps it is clean. During long time run, with 100 Khz resolution, if we run few hours we can catch anomalies on the carrier. Important note: this snapshot done on spectrum analyser in Europe, same transponder, and results similar, so it looks like interference is on transponder. Issue start to affect us at same time when people in Lebanon got local interference issues.
Here is snapshot of carrier spectrum with anomaly: http//www.nuclearcat.com/PICTURES/interference.jpg
And does this interference similarly screw up being able to RX data from the transponder whilst in Europe?
(eg, if you stick a modem on RX-only in Europe (ie, no uplink) and then just lock onto the signal and decode whatever happens, do you suffer the same problem?) Difficult, in Europe EIRP of transponder is too low, to try. By the way interference almost disappeared yesterday, and it's much better today.
On Feb 8, 2011, at 7:34 AM, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 14:41:29 Adrian Chadd wrote:
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 14:18:59 Adrian Chadd wrote:
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
I try to install C-Band bandpass filter, no effect at all, so it is in-band
interference. Putting foil (yes i try almost everything) near LNB doesn't affect interference level too.
Can you get access to some kind of spectrum analyser kit to see what the kind of interference is?
Adrian
Yes, on short (few minutes) sweeps it is clean. During long time run, with 100 Khz resolution, if we run few hours we can catch anomalies on the carrier. Important note: this snapshot done on spectrum analyser in Europe, same transponder, and results similar, so it looks like interference is on transponder. Issue start to affect us at same time when people in Lebanon got local interference issues.
Here is snapshot of carrier spectrum with anomaly: http//www.nuclearcat.com/PICTURES/interference.jpg
And does this interference similarly screw up being able to RX data from the transponder whilst in Europe?
(eg, if you stick a modem on RX-only in Europe (ie, no uplink) and then just lock onto the signal and decode whatever happens, do you suffer the same problem?) Difficult, in Europe EIRP of transponder is too low, to try. By the way interference almost disappeared yesterday, and it's much better today.
BTW, here is some comments on the pict from my office mate... It doesn't show what the sweep span is ... If it's the full transponder, could be narrow band carriers ... The gain slope across the pass band looks like CRAP ... He must have a funky LNB ... If this is one carrier, then obviously there’s interference … If the spikes are there, it could be radar or it could be some type of burst TDMA junk ... I have articles talking about C Band inband interference in Europe somewhere ... Brian
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 15:46:31 TR Shaw wrote:
On Feb 8, 2011, at 7:34 AM, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 14:41:29 Adrian Chadd wrote:
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 14:18:59 Adrian Chadd wrote:
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
I try to install C-Band bandpass filter, no effect at all, so it is in-band
interference. Putting foil (yes i try almost everything) near LNB doesn't affect interference level too.
Can you get access to some kind of spectrum analyser kit to see what the kind of interference is?
Adrian
Yes, on short (few minutes) sweeps it is clean. During long time run, with 100 Khz resolution, if we run few hours we can catch anomalies on the carrier. Important note: this snapshot done on spectrum analyser in Europe, same transponder, and results similar, so it looks like interference is on transponder. Issue start to affect us at same time when people in Lebanon got local interference issues.
Here is snapshot of carrier spectrum with anomaly: http//www.nuclearcat.com/PICTURES/interference.jpg
And does this interference similarly screw up being able to RX data from the transponder whilst in Europe?
(eg, if you stick a modem on RX-only in Europe (ie, no uplink) and then just lock onto the signal and decode whatever happens, do you suffer the same problem?)
Difficult, in Europe EIRP of transponder is too low, to try. By the way interference almost disappeared yesterday, and it's much better today.
BTW, here is some comments on the pict from my office mate...
It doesn't show what the sweep span is ... If it's the full transponder, could be narrow band carriers ... The gain slope across the pass band looks like CRAP ... He must have a funky LNB ... If this is one carrier, then obviously there’s interference … If the spikes are there, it could be radar or it could be some type of burst TDMA junk ... I have articles talking about C Band inband interference in Europe somewhere ... Brian
It is PLL LNB, one carrier, we are using full transponder 36 Mhz. There is almost no other users on this satellite (inclined more than 1.5 degree), and other carriers center frequency 100Mhz away.
On 2/8/2011 7:41 AM, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
It is PLL LNB, one carrier, we are using full transponder 36 Mhz. There is almost no other users on this satellite (inclined more than 1.5 degree), and other carriers center frequency 100Mhz away.
Since no one else will, "I blame solar flares!" Jack
On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 12:53:14 -0600, Jack Bates wrote:
On 2/8/2011 7:41 AM, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
It is PLL LNB, one carrier, we are using full transponder 36 Mhz. There is almost no other users on this satellite (inclined more than 1.5 degree), and other carriers center frequency 100Mhz away.
Since no one else will, "I blame solar flares!"
Jack
I am monitoring solar activity, getting info from NOAA. No correlation.
denys@visp.net.lb wrote:
On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 12:53:14 -0600, Jack Bates wrote:
On 2/8/2011 7:41 AM, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
It is PLL LNB, one carrier, we are using full transponder 36 Mhz. There is almost no other users on this satellite (inclined more than 1.5 degree), and other carriers center frequency 100Mhz away.
Since no one else will, "I blame solar flares!"
Jack
I am monitoring solar activity, getting info from NOAA. No correlation.
Have you been able to get any assistance from the uplink/teleport noc or the satellite operator?
On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 11:39:59 -1000, Michael Painter wrote:
denys@visp.net.lb wrote:
On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 12:53:14 -0600, Jack Bates wrote:
On 2/8/2011 7:41 AM, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
It is PLL LNB, one carrier, we are using full transponder 36 Mhz. There is almost no other users on this satellite (inclined more than 1.5 degree), and other carriers center frequency 100Mhz away.
Since no one else will, "I blame solar flares!"
Jack I am monitoring solar activity, getting info from NOAA. No correlation.
Have you been able to get any assistance from the uplink/teleport noc or the satellite operator? Yes, for sure. Satellite operator doesn't provide much help, but uplink proposed for us some plan to solve all this issues. Already we implement temporary solution, and things at least stable now, plus it seems interference is lower somehow few last days.
On Feb 12, 2011, at 5:55 PM, denys@visp.net.lb wrote:
On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 11:39:59 -1000, Michael Painter wrote:
denys@visp.net.lb wrote:
On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 12:53:14 -0600, Jack Bates wrote:
On 2/8/2011 7:41 AM, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
It is PLL LNB, one carrier, we are using full transponder 36 Mhz. There is almost no other users on this satellite (inclined more than 1.5 degree), and other carriers center frequency 100Mhz away.
Since no one else will, "I blame solar flares!"
Jack I am monitoring solar activity, getting info from NOAA. No correlation.
Have you been able to get any assistance from the uplink/teleport noc or the satellite operator? Yes, for sure. Satellite operator doesn't provide much help, but uplink proposed for us some plan to solve all this issues. Already we implement temporary solution, and things at least stable now, plus it seems interference is lower somehow few last days.
Here is a dumb idea that I have actually seen cause problems : Is it possible that the declination of the satellite from your location is the same as the Sun right now ? That will cause up to several hours of interruption every mid-day. The clue is that the shadow of the receiver box is in the center of the dish (for prime focus mounts). You might be surprised how many times this has caught people, so I thought I would mention it. Regards Marshall
On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 21:58:22 -0500, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
On Feb 12, 2011, at 5:55 PM, denys@visp.net.lb wrote:
On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 11:39:59 -1000, Michael Painter wrote:
denys@visp.net.lb wrote:
On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 12:53:14 -0600, Jack Bates wrote:
On 2/8/2011 7:41 AM, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
It is PLL LNB, one carrier, we are using full transponder 36 Mhz. There is almost no other users on this satellite (inclined more than 1.5 degree), and other carriers center frequency 100Mhz away.
Since no one else will, "I blame solar flares!"
Jack I am monitoring solar activity, getting info from NOAA. No correlation.
Have you been able to get any assistance from the uplink/teleport noc or the satellite operator? Yes, for sure. Satellite operator doesn't provide much help, but uplink proposed for us some plan to solve all this issues. Already we implement temporary solution, and things at least stable now, plus it seems interference is lower somehow few last days.
Here is a dumb idea that I have actually seen cause problems :
Is it possible that the declination of the satellite from your location is the same as the Sun right now ? That will cause up to several hours of interruption every mid-day. The clue is that the shadow of the receiver box is in the center of the dish (for prime focus mounts).
You might be surprised how many times this has caught people, so I thought I would mention it.
Usually we are preparing for solar interference before 1-2 month, and we know exactly when it will stop :-) Plus it is happening max 10-15 minutes per day, and i had complete outage for few days.
On Feb 12, 2011, at 4:05 41PM, denys@visp.net.lb wrote:
On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 12:53:14 -0600, Jack Bates wrote:
On 2/8/2011 7:41 AM, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
It is PLL LNB, one carrier, we are using full transponder 36 Mhz. There is almost no other users on this satellite (inclined more than 1.5 degree), and other carriers center frequency 100Mhz away.
Since no one else will, "I blame solar flares!"
Jack
I am monitoring solar activity, getting info from NOAA. No correlation.
Your suspicion may be accurate and accidental. I rented a car in San Diego the other day -- there was a sign warning that the key fob might not work within 5 miles of the port -- San Diego has a major Navy base -- because of interference from shipboard electronics. --Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
Your suspicion may be accurate and accidental. I rented a car in San Diego the other day -- there was a sign warning that the key fob might not work within 5 miles of the port -- San Diego has a major Navy base -- because of interference from shipboard electronics.
same time, my phone's gps claimed accuracy to 700m in the 10 miles from san diego airport. that is not a lot of good for nav. luckily i used to hang down there in the late '70s and early '80s so kinda knew my way around. randy
On Feb 12, 2011, at 11:11 42PM, Randy Bush wrote:
Your suspicion may be accurate and accidental. I rented a car in San Diego the other day -- there was a sign warning that the key fob might not work within 5 miles of the port -- San Diego has a major Navy base -- because of interference from shipboard electronics.
same time, my phone's gps claimed accuracy to 700m in the 10 miles from san diego airport. that is not a lot of good for nav. luckily i used to hang down there in the late '70s and early '80s so kinda knew my way around.
That sounds like it didn't have a GPS fix at all, and was instead using cell site proximity location. (I didn't check my phone's GPS; my Garmin unit had no trouble.) --Steve Bellovin, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
On Feb 8, 2011, at 6:59 AM, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 01:42:42 George Herbert wrote:
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Ryan Wilkins <ryan@deadfrog.net> wrote:
On Feb 7, 2011, at 4:06 PM, Michael Painter wrote:
Hi Denys I doubt it's intentional jamming since I've had the same problem. Aegis radar is very high power in full radiate mode and as such creates problems for Low Noise Amplifiers listening at 3.4-4.2 GHz. Someone needs to talk to Microwave Filter Company. http://www.microwavefilter.com/c-band_radar_elimination.htm
--Michael
+1 for Microwave Filter. They've helped me out in a couples jams before. They're very responsive and the products are good, too.
I think people in San Diego and near Norfolk, VA have the same problems.
The C-band frequencies are 2x those of the S-band (4-8 GHz for C, 2-4 GHz for S); if the SPY-1 / SPY-1D radar is frequency hopping it may well step on someone's C-band links at twice the radar's basic frequency. Just need a filter to remove actual S-band frequencies from C-band feeds. I try to install C-Band bandpass filter, no effect at all, so it is in-band interference. Putting foil (yes i try almost everything) near LNB doesn't affect interference level too.
It can come in from other places as well. Inductance via unfiltered/poorly-filtered power, poor I/F cabling as well as via other sources. Have you tried using a spectrum analyzer to characterize the signal in the ether and compare it to what you are seeing in your systems? Tom
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 14:34:58 TR Shaw wrote:
On Feb 8, 2011, at 6:59 AM, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 01:42:42 George Herbert wrote:
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Ryan Wilkins <ryan@deadfrog.net> wrote:
On Feb 7, 2011, at 4:06 PM, Michael Painter wrote:
Hi Denys I doubt it's intentional jamming since I've had the same problem. Aegis radar is very high power in full radiate mode and as such creates problems for Low Noise Amplifiers listening at 3.4-4.2 GHz. Someone needs to talk to Microwave Filter Company. http://www.microwavefilter.com/c-band_radar_elimination.htm
--Michael
+1 for Microwave Filter. They've helped me out in a couples jams before. They're very responsive and the products are good, too.
I think people in San Diego and near Norfolk, VA have the same problems.
The C-band frequencies are 2x those of the S-band (4-8 GHz for C, 2-4 GHz for S); if the SPY-1 / SPY-1D radar is frequency hopping it may well step on someone's C-band links at twice the radar's basic frequency. Just need a filter to remove actual S-band frequencies from C-band feeds.
I try to install C-Band bandpass filter, no effect at all, so it is in-band interference. Putting foil (yes i try almost everything) near LNB doesn't affect interference level too.
It can come in from other places as well. Inductance via unfiltered/poorly-filtered power, poor I/F cabling as well as via other sources.
Have you tried using a spectrum analyzer to characterize the signal in the ether and compare it to what you are seeing in your systems? Yes, for sure i did. I am running C-Band at this location not first years, and know very well how industrial sources looks on spectrum analyser, and it is easy to triangulate them (i can go up to 9Ghz). Vessel radars also relatively easy to catch, especially with sound demodulation.
Tom
At 13:59 08/02/2011 +0200, Denys Fedoryshchenko wrote:
On Tuesday 08 February 2011 01:42:42 George Herbert wrote:
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Ryan Wilkins <ryan@deadfrog.net> wrote:
On Feb 7, 2011, at 4:06 PM, Michael Painter wrote:
Hi Denys I doubt it's intentional jamming since I've had the same problem. Aegis radar is very high power in full radiate mode and as such creates problems for Low Noise Amplifiers listening at 3.4-4.2 GHz. Someone needs to talk to Microwave Filter Company. http://www.microwavefilter.com/c-band_radar_elimination.htm
--Michael
+1 for Microwave Filter. They've helped me out in a couples jams before. They're very responsive and the products are good, too.
I think people in San Diego and near Norfolk, VA have the same problems.
The C-band frequencies are 2x those of the S-band (4-8 GHz for C, 2-4 GHz for S); if the SPY-1 / SPY-1D radar is frequency hopping it may well step on someone's C-band links at twice the radar's basic frequency. Just need a filter to remove actual S-band frequencies from C-band feeds. I try to install C-Band bandpass filter, no effect at all, so it is in-band interference. Putting foil (yes i try almost everything) near LNB doesn't affect interference level too.
Been there in 2007- different disruptor, though . See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28Israel%29#Technical_problems_.28autumn_2... http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/business/a-nation-steps-up-to-rescue-ye... -Hank
participants (10)
-
Adrian Chadd -
Denys Fedoryshchenko -
denys＠visp.net.lb
-
Hank Nussbacher -
Jack Bates -
Marshall Eubanks -
Michael Painter -
Randy Bush -
Steven Bellovin -
TR Shaw