-----Original Message----- From: Patrick W.Gilmore [mailto:patrick@ianai.net] Subject: Re: First Post! Annoying Debate at Work.
Please do not take this the wrong way, but I thought it was useful input. Perhaps not to you, but maybe to those who think that getting their MCSA will teach them all they need to know.
It seems as though you MAY not be up to date on the MCSA. It stands for "Microsoft Certified Systems Administrator", FYI. To obtain the MCSA certification, I took the following exams: Exam 70-218: Managing a Microsoft Windows 2000 Network Environment Exam 70-215: Installing, Configuring, and Administering Microsoft Windows 2000 Server Exam 70-210: Installing, Configuring, and Administering Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional Exam 70-216: Implementing and Administering a Microsoft Windows 2000 Network Infrastructure One who thinks these exam topics cover (as you say" "all they need to know", should really investigate this certification.
Some of the things you asked were extremely basic.
What "things" were these? I can only find one question in my entire email that requests a response which was: "What's your take and why?", which was obviously referencing the previous statement: --------------------------------------------------------- The argument non-persuasively put is as follows: Is a USB Ethernet Adapter a "converter"? Personally, I say "no". My coworkers seem to say "yes". --------------------------------------------------------- What this means my friend, is I wouldn't ever refer to a USB Ethernet Adapter as a "converter". A few co-workers seem to disagree, hence my request for the opinion of the nanog community.
I've never taken any of the certifications you list, but I thought they would cover the basics - especially after 3 of them (from 3 different vendors, I think?)
Unfortunately, MS and Cisco certifications do not generally cover the opinions of those who would and wouldn't classify an Ethernet Adapter as falling under the broad "converter" definition. If you feel that an Ethernet Adapter is a "converter", I suggest taking a different approach.
All that said, if you don't at least start asking, you will never find out.
Asking what? I'm not sure what you're talking about here, but I have received great responses from many people here who actually contributed to this discussion.
So I would not take this as an attack on you personally - lots of people answered took the time to answer your questions, asking not even
a favor in return as payment.
The people who responded helpfully to my post, will receive any help and assistance in the future from me as a fellow nanog'er; without the POINTLESS sarcasm and flaming.
I would take it as a note to people with certifications or going for certifications that a cert != clue.
I agree here 100%. However you have also made it very clear that no_cert != clue.
(Did any of those certs have labs, or just multiple-guess tests?)
Google is your friend. http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcsa/requirements.asp http://www.cisco.com/en/US/learning/le3/le2/le0/le9/learning_certificati on_type_home.html
P.S. I kinda expected as much from MS, but it's sad that a cisco cert doesn't mean much any more. :(
Notice mostly everyone who provided useful feedback on this agreed with my opinion on this. Common sense has nothing to do with certs. Having both isn't a bad trait however. FYI, thanks for everyone who contributed to this.
On Mar 1, 2004, at 12:59 PM, Christopher Aldridge wrote:
Please do not take this the wrong way, but I thought it was useful input. Perhaps not to you, but maybe to those who think that getting their MCSA will teach them all they need to know.
One who thinks these exam topics cover (as you say" "all they need to know", should really investigate this certification.
So we are in agreement.
Some of the things you asked were extremely basic.
What "things" were these?
I guess I just consider things like "ethernet adaptors" and "ethernet converters" basic. Basic can be good. But it's still basic. Also, I probably attributed some of the replies to your original post in my memory. Or maybe I just misremembered your post completely. I hope you can accept my apology and end the flame war. In my defense, I did say that you should not take this personally.
So I would not take this as an attack on you personally - lots of people answered took the time to answer your questions, asking not even
a favor in return as payment.
The people who responded helpfully to my post, will receive any help and assistance in the future from me as a fellow nanog'er; without the POINTLESS sarcasm and flaming.
Got it. 'Cause the post to which I am responding is very pointFULL. And if you are implying that I will not be getting help and assistance from you (or at least not without sarcasm), well, somehow I'm just not too worried.
I would take it as a note to people with certifications or going for certifications that a cert != clue.
I agree here 100%. However you have also made it very clear that no_cert != clue.
Really? Glad we cleared that up, 'cause lots of people were probably assuming that if you have no certification you were automatically clued.... :) Unless, of course, you are implying I have no certifications. Which would be a bad assumption. I have gotten several certifications over the years, some of which I actually think are useful. I just do not have any of the ones you listed. Of course, then you would also be impling I have no clue. Many people might agree with you, but since the first part (no_cert) failed, then the second part is irrelevant.
(Did any of those certs have labs, or just multiple-guess tests?)
Google is your friend.
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcsa/requirements.asp http://www.cisco.com/en/US/learning/le3/le2/le0/le9/ learning_certificati on_type_home.html
Thanx, but not worth the effort. I'm never going to get a CCNA (definitely) or an MCSA (probably). Was just curious and didn't want to wade through multiple web pages. A couple people told me off-list and I was happy. Thanx for the tip, though. I'll have to remember that "google" thing.... :) -- TTFN, patrick
Consumers are not interested in certificates, they want solutions that are packaged. Front end services when people sign up for accounts should include all the tools necessary for survive on any network you provider access to. -Henry "Patrick W.Gilmore" <patrick@ianai.net> wrote: On Mar 1, 2004, at 12:59 PM, Christopher Aldridge wrote:
Please do not take this the wrong way, but I thought it was useful input. Perhaps not to you, but maybe to those who think that getting their MCSA will teach them all they need to know.
One who thinks these exam topics cover (as you say" "all they need to know", should really investigate this certification.
So we are in agreement.
Some of the things you asked were extremely basic.
What "things" were these?
I guess I just consider things like "ethernet adaptors" and "ethernet converters" basic. Basic can be good. But it's still basic. Also, I probably attributed some of the replies to your original post in my memory. Or maybe I just misremembered your post completely. I hope you can accept my apology and end the flame war. In my defense, I did say that you should not take this personally.
So I would not take this as an attack on you personally - lots of people answered took the time to answer your questions, asking not even
a favor in return as payment.
The people who responded helpfully to my post, will receive any help and assistance in the future from me as a fellow nanog'er; without the POINTLESS sarcasm and flaming.
Got it. 'Cause the post to which I am responding is very pointFULL. And if you are implying that I will not be getting help and assistance from you (or at least not without sarcasm), well, somehow I'm just not too worried.
I would take it as a note to people with certifications or going for certifications that a cert != clue.
I agree here 100%. However you have also made it very clear that no_cert != clue.
Really? Glad we cleared that up, 'cause lots of people were probably assuming that if you have no certification you were automatically clued.... :) Unless, of course, you are implying I have no certifications. Which would be a bad assumption. I have gotten several certifications over the years, some of which I actually think are useful. I just do not have any of the ones you listed. Of course, then you would also be impling I have no clue. Many people might agree with you, but since the first part (no_cert) failed, then the second part is irrelevant.
(Did any of those certs have labs, or just multiple-guess tests?)
Google is your friend.
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcsa/requirements.asp http://www.cisco.com/en/US/learning/le3/le2/le0/le9/ learning_certificati on_type_home.html
Thanx, but not worth the effort. I'm never going to get a CCNA (definitely) or an MCSA (probably). Was just curious and didn't want to wade through multiple web pages. A couple people told me off-list and I was happy. Thanx for the tip, though. I'll have to remember that "google" thing.... :) -- TTFN, patrick
On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, Christopher Aldridge wrote:
know", should really investigate this certification.
Some of the things you asked were extremely basic.
What "things" were these?
How about the question about whether or not a usb ethernet adapter was an ethernet converter? You're the one who thinks Patrick is a nozzle for not searching google...when your question, the sole purpose of your posting, can be answered merely by searching google. I'm sure when you look for the proper terms, such as "media converter", you'll have a lot more luck. Basically, in order for something to be an adapter, it _MUST_ be the interface for a leaf node, such as an individual computer. In order for something to be a converter, there is an implied many-to-many relationship, not a one-to-many or one-to-one as with an adapter.
The people who responded helpfully to my post, will receive any help and assistance in the future from me as a fellow nanog'er; without the POINTLESS sarcasm and flaming.
You mean, the pointless sarcasm and flaming in response to a pointless and clueless post?
I would take it as a note to people with certifications or going for certifications that a cert != clue.
I agree here 100%. However you have also made it very clear that no_cert != clue.
Heh, yeah, check out the tiny clue on Patrick. I mean, you've been reading for a whole year, surely you know who the people to respect are. How dare Patrick be a pretender! ;)
(Did any of those certs have labs, or just multiple-guess tests?)
Google is your friend.
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcsa/requirements.asp http://www.cisco.com/en/US/learning/le3/le2/le0/le9/learning_certificati on_type_home.html
Oh, so you DO know about google. Then why are you littering and loitering on this list?
P.S. I kinda expected as much from MS, but it's sad that a cisco cert doesn't mean much any more. :(
Notice mostly everyone who provided useful feedback on this agreed with my opinion on this. Common sense has nothing to do with certs. Having both isn't a bad trait however.
You're right, common sense has nothing to do with certs. Thank you for providing a concrete example. Andy --- Andy Dills Xecunet, Inc. www.xecu.net 301-682-9972 ---
You wanna know about USB read this and that doesn't take an MSCE http://www.usb.org/faq Andy Dills <andy@xecu.net> wrote: On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, Christopher Aldridge wrote:
know", should really investigate this certification.
Some of the things you asked were extremely basic.
What "things" were these?
How about the question about whether or not a usb ethernet adapter was an ethernet converter? You're the one who thinks Patrick is a nozzle for not searching google...when your question, the sole purpose of your posting, can be answered merely by searching google. I'm sure when you look for the proper terms, such as "media converter", you'll have a lot more luck. Basically, in order for something to be an adapter, it _MUST_ be the interface for a leaf node, such as an individual computer. In order for something to be a converter, there is an implied many-to-many relationship, not a one-to-many or one-to-one as with an adapter.
The people who responded helpfully to my post, will receive any help and assistance in the future from me as a fellow nanog'er; without the POINTLESS sarcasm and flaming.
You mean, the pointless sarcasm and flaming in response to a pointless and clueless post?
I would take it as a note to people with certifications or going for certifications that a cert != clue.
I agree here 100%. However you have also made it very clear that no_cert != clue.
Heh, yeah, check out the tiny clue on Patrick. I mean, you've been reading for a whole year, surely you know who the people to respect are. How dare Patrick be a pretender! ;)
(Did any of those certs have labs, or just multiple-guess tests?)
Google is your friend.
http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcsa/requirements.asp http://www.cisco.com/en/US/learning/le3/le2/le0/le9/learning_certificati on_type_home.html
Oh, so you DO know about google. Then why are you littering and loitering on this list?
P.S. I kinda expected as much from MS, but it's sad that a cisco cert doesn't mean much any more. :(
Notice mostly everyone who provided useful feedback on this agreed with my opinion on this. Common sense has nothing to do with certs. Having both isn't a bad trait however.
You're right, common sense has nothing to do with certs. Thank you for providing a concrete example. Andy --- Andy Dills Xecunet, Inc. www.xecu.net 301-682-9972 ---
participants (4)
-
Andy Dills -
Christopher Aldridge -
Henry Linneweh -
Patrick W.Gilmore