I am investigating options for terminating many T1's with an objective of high-density and easy scaleability. I am curious how others are approaching this. Possible scenarios: 1. Cisco serial ports and rack CSU/DSU's. Exspensive. Lot of space. 2. MAX TNT for T1's connecting to a backbone Cisco. Theoretically up to 140 T1's in 1 small box with built-in CSU/DSU's. Unproven? 3. Cascade. Similair to TNT approach, very exspensive untill you reach 70+ T1's in a chassis. 4. Chanellized DS3. Don't know anything about it - can MFS provide circuits this way via a DS3 handoff? No CSU/DSU required? Any other costs/issues? Thanks for any ideas and experiences! --stb
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Stephen Balbach wrote:
1. Cisco serial ports and rack CSU/DSU's. Exspensive. Lot of space. Cisco has a channelized DS3 card. Wire once to dacs and provision in software only.
2. MAX TNT for T1's connecting to a backbone Cisco. Theoretically up to 140 T1's in 1 small box with built-in CSU/DSU's. Unproven?
3. Cascade. Similair to TNT approach, very exspensive untill you reach 70+ T1's in a chassis. Cascade has a channelized DS3 card as well. Good for combining many customers who have a physical T1. Split out at the dacs.
4. Chanellized DS3. Don't know anything about it - can MFS provide circuits this way via a DS3 handoff? No CSU/DSU required? Any other costs/issues? Channelized DS3 stuff only seems to be useful for putting mulitple customers on a single physical circuit. You need to be able to break it out to the DS1 level for each customer. Perhaps MFS, PacBell, etc can do this? It's probably just a matter of them defining that "product". (I.E. Feed MFS a DS3 and they give a T1 to each of your customers.)
--Ben Kirkpatrick Data Products, Electric Lightwave, NOC= 800.622.4354 -not speaking for ELI, not even speaking- "Consciousness: that annoying time between naps."
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Stephen Balbach wrote:
1. Cisco serial ports and rack CSU/DSU's. Exspensive. Lot of space. Cisco has a channelized DS3 card. Wire once to dacs and provision in software only.
2. MAX TNT for T1's connecting to a backbone Cisco. Theoretically up to 140 T1's in 1 small box with built-in CSU/DSU's. Unproven?
Vary.
3. Cascade. Similair to TNT approach, very exspensive untill you reach 70+ T1's in a chassis. Cascade has a channelized DS3 card as well. Good for combining many customers who have a physical T1. Split out at the dacs.
Yes tend to be big bucks, but is not that bad if you have many T1s to terminate.
4. Chanellized DS3. Don't know anything about it - can MFS provide circuits this way via a DS3 handoff? No CSU/DSU required? Any other costs/issues? Channelized DS3 stuff only seems to be useful for putting mulitple customers on a single physical circuit. You need to be able to break it out to the DS1 level for each customer. Perhaps MFS, PacBell, etc can do this? It's probably just a matter of them defining that "product". (I.E. Feed MFS a DS3 and they give a T1 to each of your customers.)
Yes, the Cascade and Cisco CT3 have a built in M13 built in. All you need to do is order a DS3 HUB into the providers you want. What we do is run a few DS3s into the COs in our area. You may want to run a DS3 into a few telcos also. They can you get the best price for your customers. DS3 HUBs can be a little on the high side, but they more then pay for themselves. Say you run a DS3 HUB into Bell Atlantic, you spend around 3K for the HUB. When you order your customers T1s you only order a 1/2 channel term. So you can more then pay for it with around 9 - 13 DS1s. Nathan Stratton President, NetRail,Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Phone (888)NetRail NetRail, Inc. Fax (404)522-1939 230 Peachtree Suite 500 WWW http://www.netrail.net/ Atlanta, GA 30303 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No king is saved by the size of his army; no warrior escapes by his great strength. - Psalm 33:16
Actually, up in Boston, MFS derives all their pricing by taking the Nynex end-to-end price and subtracting a certain percentage (at least 10%). I may be mistaken but, I think they still do this even with the DS3 Hub. You still pay two chan terms. A Nynex chan term is about $200 so this ends up being quite an expense. The overall savings still makes it worth while if you are going to sell a lot of T1s - if only for the headache, you only need two aspirin at the end of the day instead of four. Brian On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Nathan Stratton wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Stephen Balbach wrote:
1. Cisco serial ports and rack CSU/DSU's. Exspensive. Lot of space. Cisco has a channelized DS3 card. Wire once to dacs and provision in software only.
2. MAX TNT for T1's connecting to a backbone Cisco. Theoretically up to 140 T1's in 1 small box with built-in CSU/DSU's. Unproven?
Vary.
3. Cascade. Similair to TNT approach, very exspensive untill you reach 70+ T1's in a chassis. Cascade has a channelized DS3 card as well. Good for combining many customers who have a physical T1. Split out at the dacs.
Yes tend to be big bucks, but is not that bad if you have many T1s to terminate.
4. Chanellized DS3. Don't know anything about it - can MFS provide circuits this way via a DS3 handoff? No CSU/DSU required? Any other costs/issues? Channelized DS3 stuff only seems to be useful for putting mulitple customers on a single physical circuit. You need to be able to break it out to the DS1 level for each customer. Perhaps MFS, PacBell, etc can do this? It's probably just a matter of them defining that "product". (I.E. Feed MFS a DS3 and they give a T1 to each of your customers.)
Yes, the Cascade and Cisco CT3 have a built in M13 built in. All you need to do is order a DS3 HUB into the providers you want. What we do is run a few DS3s into the COs in our area. You may want to run a DS3 into a few telcos also. They can you get the best price for your customers.
DS3 HUBs can be a little on the high side, but they more then pay for themselves. Say you run a DS3 HUB into Bell Atlantic, you spend around 3K for the HUB. When you order your customers T1s you only order a 1/2 channel term. So you can more then pay for it with around 9 - 13 DS1s.
Nathan Stratton President, NetRail,Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Phone (888)NetRail NetRail, Inc. Fax (404)522-1939 230 Peachtree Suite 500 WWW http://www.netrail.net/ Atlanta, GA 30303 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No king is saved by the size of his army; no warrior escapes by his great strength. - Psalm 33:16
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:07:01 -0400 (EDT) Brian Horvitz <horvitz@websecure.net> wrote:
Actually, up in Boston, MFS derives all their pricing by taking the Nynex end-to-end price and subtracting a certain percentage (at least 10%). I may be mistaken but, I think they still do this even with the DS3 Hub. You still pay two chan terms. A Nynex chan term is about $200 so this ends up being quite an expense. The overall savings still makes it worth while if you are going to sell a lot of T1s - if only for the headache, you only need two aspirin at the end of the day instead of four.
The solution to this is for someone to make a Channelised SONET/SDH interface. [I know more on SDH so I'll talk about that] SDH is a multiplexing technolodgy and with SDH I could have one pair of fibres from an SDH MUX to my Ascend/Cisco/BAY box that had upto 60 E1 [2048 lines] on it using a virtual container. VC-12 for 2048K and VC-11 for 1544K [T1]. With this one could have around 100 T1's. The Telco could do the routeing via Cross-connect and even deliver this service using SDH, one would could also have this on looped SDH and 99% of the fiber breaks that we see currently would simply go away. You could also pull these circuits into standard E1/T1 muxes and make 30 64K channels on an E1. The other great thing about this is that SDH and SONET are really easy to manage. SDH and SONET are multiplexing technolodgies and I wish the router manufacturers would wake up and grab this idea. I'm currently using ATM->FR mapping to do this with the Ascend GRF which works reasonably well, apart from ATM ofcourse :-). We're putting lots of pressure on our suppliers to make the above happen. Ascend have a SONET card [with protection] for the GRF so things are going in the right direction. Regards, Neil. -- Neil J. McRae. Alive and Kicking. Domino: In the glow of the night. neil@DOMINO.ORG NetBSD/sparc: 100% SpF (Solaris protection Factor) Free the daemon in your <A HREF="http://www.NetBSD.ORG/">computer!</A>
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Stephen Balbach wrote:
4. Chanellized DS3. Don't know anything about it - can MFS provide circuits this way via a DS3 handoff? No CSU/DSU required? Any other costs/issues? Channelized DS3 stuff only seems to be useful for putting mulitple customers on a single physical circuit. You need to be able to break it out to the DS1 level for each customer. Perhaps MFS, PacBell, etc can do this? It's probably just a matter of them defining that "product". (I.E. Feed MFS a DS3 and they give a T1 to each of your customers.)
US West !nterprise sells such a service, only for frame relay connections. If you are in US West territory, or in a city where !nterprise has service, then they can provision it (they are also the only carrier so far that does not tarrif or sell Frame Relay based on CIR, simply port speed and local loop only). Operationally, I have typically experienced under 30 minute FR circuit turn up times, from when I call the engineer. My current employer is not a US West customer, but we will be in the future. Their engineers also are not just familiar with the parameters you need to know to provision/configure just Cisco equipment, a situation I have experienced with other carriers at times (I've been told, "What do you NEED to know the DLCI for?", carrier name with-held). David Mercer InfiNETways, Inc. Tucson, AZ
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997, David Mercer wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Stephen Balbach wrote:
4. Chanellized DS3. Don't know anything about it - can MFS provide circuits this way via a DS3 handoff? No CSU/DSU required? Any other costs/issues? Channelized DS3 stuff only seems to be useful for putting mulitple customers on a single physical circuit. You need to be able to break it out to the DS1 level for each customer. Perhaps MFS, PacBell, etc can do this? It's probably just a matter of them defining that "product". (I.E. Feed MFS a DS3 and they give a T1 to each of your customers.)
US West !nterprise sells such a service, only for frame relay connections.
Not quite true. We have two CT3's on order from USWest (not !nterprize) for plain-ol' T1 aggragation...this in the WA/OR area. TE
On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:50:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Eastgard <eastgard@nwnet.net> said:
Tom> On Wed, 23 Jul 1997, David Mercer wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jul 1997, Stephen Balbach wrote:
4. Chanellized DS3. Don't know anything about it - can MFS provide circuits this way via a DS3 handoff? No CSU/DSU required? Any other costs/issues? Channelized DS3 stuff only seems to be useful for putting mulitple customers on a single physical circuit. You need to be able to break it out to the DS1 level for each customer. Perhaps MFS, PacBell, etc can do this? It's probably just a matter of them defining that "product". (I.E. Feed MFS a DS3 and they give a T1 to each of your customers.)
US West !nterprise sells such a service, only for frame relay connections.
Tom> Not quite true. We have two CT3's on order from USWest (not !nterprize) Tom> for plain-ol' T1 aggragation...this in the WA/OR area. And, if you get this service over a SHNS (Self Healing Network Service) ring that you can also get from USWest, you have extremely reliable links. Dave.
participants (8)
-
Ben Kirkpatrick, ELI -
Brian Horvitz -
Dave Bergum -
David Mercer -
Nathan Stratton -
Neil J. McRae -
Stephen Balbach -
Tom Eastgard