I'm looking into doing some research that will make use of GBICs(Gigabit Interface Converters), but I need to know how many of you are using GBICs in your networks? If you are using them, where do they fit into your topology? -Lance- Agilent Laboratories lance_tatman@agilent.com
On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 09:48:01AM -0800, lance_tatman@agilent.com wrote:
I'm looking into doing some research that will make use of GBICs(Gigabit Interface Converters), but I need to know how many of you are using GBICs in your networks? If you are using them, where do they fit into your topology?
I think mostly any operator is using GBICs somewhere in there network. We are using them at the edge and in the core. -- Cliff Albert | RIPE: CA3348-RIPE | https://oisec.net/ cliff@oisec.net | 6BONE: CA2-6BONE | PGP Fingerprint = 9ED4 1372 5053 937E F59D B35F 06A1 CC43 9A9B 1C5A
On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 09:48:01AM -0800, lance_tatman@agilent.com wrote:
I'm looking into doing some research that will make use of GBICs(Gigabit Interface Converters),
interesting info too: http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0310/wodelet.html
but I need to know how many of you are using GBICs in your networks? If you are using them, where do they fit into your topology?
Anyone who runs a provider network pretty much? heh.. We use them on all core routers and colo switch uplinks.. -hc -- Haesu C. TowardEX Technologies, Inc. Consulting, colocation, web hosting, network design and implementation http://www.towardex.com | haesu@towardex.com Cell: (978)394-2867 | Office: (978)263-3399 Ext. 170 Fax: (978)263-0033 | POC: HAESU-ARIN
On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 09:48:01AM -0800, lance_tatman@agilent.com wrote:
I'm looking into doing some research that will make use of GBICs(Gigabit Interface Converters), but I need to know how many of you are using GBICs in your networks? If you are using them, where do they fit into your topology?
Hello, I am also doing some research and would like to know how many of you are using routers in your networks? I am considering making use of them, but first I need to know where they fit into your topology? k thx bye -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras@e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC)
On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 03:25:43PM -0500, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 09:48:01AM -0800, lance_tatman@agilent.com wrote:
I'm looking into doing some research that will make use of GBICs(Gigabit Interface Converters), but I need to know how many of you are using GBICs in your networks? If you are using them, where do they fit into your topology?
Hello,
I am also doing some research and would like to know how many of you are using routers in your networks? I am considering making use of them, but first I need to know where they fit into your topology?
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=75&e=18&u=/nf/22581 Plainly stated, routers no longer have a home in the core of the network. "You might have found a router there five years ago, but most certainly you have a switch today," said Yankee Group vice president Zeus Kerravala. Whew, good thing I checked, I almost went out and bought routers for my network. :) -- Richard A Steenbergen <ras@e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Richard A Steenbergen wrote: | On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 03:25:43PM -0500, Richard A Steenbergen wrote: | |>On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 09:48:01AM -0800, lance_tatman@agilent.com wrote: |> |>>I'm looking into doing some research that will make use of GBICs(Gigabit Interface Converters), |>>but I need to know how many of you are using GBICs in your networks? |>>If you are using them, where do they fit into your topology? |> |>Hello, |> |>I am also doing some research and would like to know how many of you are |>using routers in your networks? I am considering making use of them, but |>first I need to know where they fit into your topology? | | | http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=75&e=18&u=/nf/22581 | | Plainly stated, routers no longer have a home in the core of the network. | "You might have found a router there five years ago, but most certainly | you have a switch today," said Yankee Group vice president Zeus Kerravala. | | Whew, good thing I checked, I almost went out and bought routers for my | network. :) | Hmm, was that a news story or an advertisement for a certain N vendor disguised as one? ========= bep -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (MingW32) iD8DBQE/oVUqE1XcgMgrtyYRAnaJAJ43oxMogei/SdvcdJQNLzPrRUptXgCfYH3b sQRR5ZpSZ/U14oNGV1Krj3A= =Rvna -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Richard A Steenbergen writes on 10/30/2003 1:08 PM:
Plainly stated, routers no longer have a home in the core of the network. "You might have found a router there five years ago, but most certainly you have a switch today," said Yankee Group vice president Zeus Kerravala.
What brand of switch is this guy selling? And what is he smoking? Sure would be interesting to find out :) -- srs (postmaster|suresh)@outblaze.com // gpg : EDEDEFB9 manager, outblaze.com security and antispam operations
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: : : Richard A Steenbergen writes on 10/30/2003 1:08 PM: : : > Plainly stated, routers no longer have a home in the core of the network. : > "You might have found a router there five years ago, but most certainly : > you have a switch today," said Yankee Group vice president Zeus Kerravala. : : What brand of switch is this guy selling? And what is he smoking? Sure : would be interesting to find out :) Vendor F scott
SR> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:18:28 -0500 SR> From: Suresh Ramasubramanian SR> What brand of switch is this guy selling? And what is he SR> smoking? Sure would be interesting to find out :) Maybe the Yankee Group is a subsidiary of Ncatal Ventures. Eddy -- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Bandwidth, consulting, e-commerce, hosting, and network building Phone: +1 785 865 5885 Lawrence and [inter]national Phone: +1 316 794 8922 Wichita _________________________________________________________________ DO NOT send mail to the following addresses : blacklist@brics.com -or- alfra@intc.net -or- curbjmp@intc.net Sending mail to spambait addresses is a great way to get blocked.
On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, E.B. Dreger wrote:
SR> What brand of switch is this guy selling? And what is he SR> smoking? Sure would be interesting to find out :)
Maybe the Yankee Group is a subsidiary of Ncatal Ventures.
That was my thought. Its "Dood, Where's my Core?" all over again!
Hmm. Don't you just love it when folks say things like "Layer 3 Switches are better than routers". Its very illuminating as to clue level. I suppose what they were trying to say, is that products that were designed as switches, but are now running routing code, are superior to products that were designed as routers, and are running routing code. Of course, this is demonstrably false. "Layer 3 Switch" is like "Tier 1 ISP" - meaningless marketing drivel, divorced from any previous technical meaning. Sure, gigabit Ethernet switches are great. Sure, they can do some light routing tasks. But saying, essentially, that "core routers are obsolete, and should be immediately replaced with somewhat less capable core routers" is weak. Lets all be thankful they are now using ASICs, though! All that software based routing was making me nervous - five years ago :) - Daniel Golding On 10/30/03 1:18 PM, "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh@outblaze.com> wrote:
Richard A Steenbergen writes on 10/30/2003 1:08 PM:
Plainly stated, routers no longer have a home in the core of the network. "You might have found a router there five years ago, but most certainly you have a switch today," said Yankee Group vice president Zeus Kerravala.
What brand of switch is this guy selling? And what is he smoking? Sure would be interesting to find out :)
DG> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:52:54 -0500 DG> From: Daniel Golding DG> Lets all be thankful they are now using ASICs, though! All DG> that software based routing was making me nervous - five DG> years ago :) Routing or forwarding? Eddy -- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Bandwidth, consulting, e-commerce, hosting, and network building Phone: +1 785 865 5885 Lawrence and [inter]national Phone: +1 316 794 8922 Wichita _________________________________________________________________ DO NOT send mail to the following addresses : blacklist@brics.com -or- alfra@intc.net -or- curbjmp@intc.net Sending mail to spambait addresses is a great way to get blocked.
Heh. Forwarding, of course. - Dan On 10/30/03 2:15 PM, "E.B. Dreger" <eddy+public+spam@noc.everquick.net> wrote:
DG> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:52:54 -0500 DG> From: Daniel Golding
DG> Lets all be thankful they are now using ASICs, though! All DG> that software based routing was making me nervous - five DG> years ago :)
Routing or forwarding?
Eddy -- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Bandwidth, consulting, e-commerce, hosting, and network building Phone: +1 785 865 5885 Lawrence and [inter]national Phone: +1 316 794 8922 Wichita _________________________________________________________________ DO NOT send mail to the following addresses : blacklist@brics.com -or- alfra@intc.net -or- curbjmp@intc.net Sending mail to spambait addresses is a great way to get blocked.
Hmm. Don't you just love it when folks say things like "Layer 3 Switches are better than routers". Its very illuminating as to clue level.
I suppose what they were trying to say, is that products that were designed as switches, but are now running routing code, are superior to products
Thus spake "Daniel Golding" <dgolding@burtongroup.com> that
were designed as routers, and are running routing code. Of course, this is demonstrably false.
"Layer 3 Switch" is like "Tier 1 ISP" - meaningless marketing drivel, divorced from any previous technical meaning.
I've always stated that "switch" is a marketing term meaning "fast". Thus a "L2 switch" is a "fast bridge" and a "L3 switch" is a "fast router". In this light, the Yankee Group is just now catching on to something we all knew a decade ago -- slow (i.e. software) routers are dead. There's a more interesting level to the discussion if you look at what carriers are interested in for their backbone hardware today; while I'm obviously biased based on my employer, I've seen a lot more emphasis on $20k-per-10GE-port "L3 switches" than $200k-per-10GE-port "core routers" in the current economic climate. S Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
Funny I thought a "switch" was a multiport bridge... uses the MAC headers to flood. ahh makes me long for the days of Kalpana. Scott C. McGrath On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Hmm. Don't you just love it when folks say things like "Layer 3 Switches are better than routers". Its very illuminating as to clue level.
I suppose what they were trying to say, is that products that were designed as switches, but are now running routing code, are superior to products
Thus spake "Daniel Golding" <dgolding@burtongroup.com> that
were designed as routers, and are running routing code. Of course, this is demonstrably false.
"Layer 3 Switch" is like "Tier 1 ISP" - meaningless marketing drivel, divorced from any previous technical meaning.
I've always stated that "switch" is a marketing term meaning "fast". Thus a "L2 switch" is a "fast bridge" and a "L3 switch" is a "fast router". In this light, the Yankee Group is just now catching on to something we all knew a decade ago -- slow (i.e. software) routers are dead.
There's a more interesting level to the discussion if you look at what carriers are interested in for their backbone hardware today; while I'm obviously biased based on my employer, I've seen a lot more emphasis on $20k-per-10GE-port "L3 switches" than $200k-per-10GE-port "core routers" in the current economic climate.
S
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
RAS> Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:08:01 -0500 RAS> From: Richard A Steenbergen RAS> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=75&e=18&u=/nf/22581 RAS> RAS> Plainly stated, routers no longer have a home in the core of the network. RAS> "You might have found a router there five years ago, but most certainly RAS> you have a switch today," said Yankee Group vice president Zeus Kerravala. RAS> RAS> Whew, good thing I checked, I almost went out and bought routers for my RAS> network. :) So STP is now the control plane protocol of choice? ;-) Eddy -- Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - EverQuick Internet Division Bandwidth, consulting, e-commerce, hosting, and network building Phone: +1 785 865 5885 Lawrence and [inter]national Phone: +1 316 794 8922 Wichita _________________________________________________________________ DO NOT send mail to the following addresses : blacklist@brics.com -or- alfra@intc.net -or- curbjmp@intc.net Sending mail to spambait addresses is a great way to get blocked.
Routers exists everywhere; Catalist 6509, for example, IS A ROUTER not less than A SWITCH. Perfectly, it is a router with extensive switching capabilities. Problem is that (1) most devices today support both L3 routuing and L2 switching (which is MAC level routing de facto), and (2) some devices implement routing, using L2 mechanisms (mlp routing on 6509). But., from network point of view, they do not stop to be a routers. You can - insert switch into traditional router, insert router card into traditional switch; in any case, you have _router_ and _switch_ (sometimes, in the same box). So, obsolete are not routers (esp. low end); obsolete is classification. Alexei Roudnev ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard A Steenbergen" <ras@e-gerbil.net> To: <lance_tatman@agilent.com> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 10:08 AM Subject: Yankee Group declares core routing obsolete (was Re: Anybody using GBICs?)
On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 03:25:43PM -0500, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
On Tue, Oct 28, 2003 at 09:48:01AM -0800, lance_tatman@agilent.com
wrote:
I'm looking into doing some research that will make use of
GBICs(Gigabit Interface Converters),
but I need to know how many of you are using GBICs in your networks? If you are using them, where do they fit into your topology?
Hello,
I am also doing some research and would like to know how many of you are using routers in your networks? I am considering making use of them, but first I need to know where they fit into your topology?
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=75&e=18&u=/nf/22581
Plainly stated, routers no longer have a home in the core of the network. "You might have found a router there five years ago, but most certainly you have a switch today," said Yankee Group vice president Zeus Kerravala.
Whew, good thing I checked, I almost went out and bought routers for my network. :)
-- Richard A Steenbergen <ras@e-gerbil.net> http://www.e-gerbil.net/ras GPG Key ID: 0xF8B12CBC (7535 7F59 8204 ED1F CC1C 53AF 4C41 5ECA F8B1 2CBC)
participants (14)
-
Alex Yuriev -
Alexei Roudnev -
Bruce Pinsky -
Cliff Albert -
Daniel Golding -
E.B. Dreger -
Haesu -
lance_tatmanīŧ agilent.com -
Richard A Steenbergen -
Scott McGrath -
Scott Weeks -
Stephen Sprunk -
Suresh Ramasubramanian -
Tom (UnitedLayer)