Re: different thinking on exchanging traffic
Currently there are at least 60 ISPs serving the San Diego county area. There are LOTS of packets from "home" to "office" that make a round-trip via MAE-West. Some people have decided that this is silly. Even if it is "cost-effective", it *squanders* bandwidth at MAE-West that could best be used for other traffic.
This is true in almost every major metro area. I help found an exchange point in St. Louis. Not MAE-East levels of traffic, the exchange peak at about 2.4 Mbps of traffic (more than a T1's worth). http://www.stlouix.net/ But that's 2.4Mbps of traffic that didn't travel 2,000 miles to get across town. Of course, not every local ISP participates. The state subsidized education network doesn't connect, nor do some the dialup ISPs. But it gets a reasonable level of support from several of the larger area providers. But exchange points are one of those weird creatures. If I'm paying a big expensive backbone, why would I get anything from a local exchange point? And of course, the ever popular "What's the catch?" Since local exchange points are generally run on a non-profit basis, that means there isn't a large marketing organization, or a huge gaggle of salespeople trying to sell it. If you like, we can call it a "managed connection" and charge you $1,000/month. But that seems steep for essentially a port on a catalyst switch. But we've found once an ISP connects, they generally keep it. -- Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO Affiliation given for identification not representation
Of course, not every local ISP participates. The state subsidized education network doesn't connect, nor do some the dialup ISPs. But it gets a reasonable level of support from several of the larger area providers.
The same type of project was attemted in Toronto. CANIX was essentially set upto cross connect traffic rather than having to traverse the entire US network to get to the other side of Toronto. The problem was, it became an exclusive bilateral peering arrangemt with 6 players. That was 1 1/2 years ago. Currently only 2 are peered. What in fact was the point. UUnet and Sprint were the big players up here and nobody appears to want to cooperate.
But exchange points are one of those weird creatures. If I'm paying a big expensive backbone, why would I get anything from a local exchange point? And of course, the ever popular "What's the catch?" Since local exchange points are generally run on a non-profit basis, that means there isn't a large marketing organization, or a huge gaggle of salespeople trying to sell it. If you like, we can call it a "managed connection" and charge you $1,000/month. But that seems steep for essentially a port on a catalyst switch.
Damian O'Gorman
Well, the problem is of course that local exchanges concentrate power and make backbone packet transport into a commoditiy with machines (routers) making buying decisions in realtime. Dirk On Tue, May 26, 1998 at 03:38:24PM -0400, Damian O'Gorman wrote:
Of course, not every local ISP participates. The state subsidized education network doesn't connect, nor do some the dialup ISPs. But it gets a reasonable level of support from several of the larger area providers.
The same type of project was attemted in Toronto. CANIX was essentially set upto cross connect traffic rather than having to traverse the entire US network to get to the other side of Toronto. The problem was, it became an exclusive bilateral peering arrangemt with 6 players. That was 1 1/2 years ago. Currently only 2 are peered. What in fact was the point. UUnet and Sprint were the big players up here and nobody appears to want to cooperate.
But exchange points are one of those weird creatures. If I'm paying a big expensive backbone, why would I get anything from a local exchange point? And of course, the ever popular "What's the catch?" Since local exchange points are generally run on a non-profit basis, that means there isn't a large marketing organization, or a huge gaggle of salespeople trying to sell it. If you like, we can call it a "managed connection" and charge you $1,000/month. But that seems steep for essentially a port on a catalyst switch.
Damian O'Gorman
[ On Tue, May 26, 1998 at 15:38:24 (-0400), Damian O'Gorman wrote: ]
Subject: Re: different thinking on exchanging traffic
The same type of project was attemted in Toronto. CANIX was essentially set upto cross connect traffic rather than having to traverse the entire US network to get to the other side of Toronto. The problem was, it became an exclusive bilateral peering arrangemt with 6 players. That was 1 1/2 years ago. Currently only 2 are peered. What in fact was the point. UUnet and Sprint were the big players up here and nobody appears to want to cooperate.
There's a new game in town: TorIX <URL:http://www.torontointernetxchange.net/> They're basically supplying rack space and an ethernet switch port in Toronto's premier downtown communications interchange location (151 Front St.). All routing, peering, etc. is completely separate and totally up to those who drag their own connectivity down to this location. I'm not involved in this -- just an interested bystander for now, but it looks like it's unique in its conception to anything else I've seen anywhere else to date. -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 443-1734 VE3TCP <gwoods@acm.org> <robohack!woods> Planix, Inc. <woods@planix.com>; Secrets of the Weird <woods@weird.com>
Thus spake Damian O'Gorman
The same type of project was attemted in Toronto. CANIX was essentially set upto cross connect traffic rather than having to traverse the entire US network to get to the other side of Toronto. The problem was, it became an exclusive bilateral peering arrangemt with 6 players. That was 1 1/2 years ago. Currently only 2 are peered. What in fact was the point. UUnet and Sprint were the big players up here and nobody appears to want to cooperate.
There is another project starting up now which is a little more egalitarian. Check out http://www.torontointernetxchange.net/. -- D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net> | Democracy is three wolves http://www.druid.net/darcy/ | and a sheep voting on +1 416 424 2871 (DoD#0082) (eNTP) | what's for dinner.
participants (5)
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Damian O'Gorman -
darcy＠druid.net -
dirk＠power.net -
Sean Donelan -
woods＠most.weird.com