If you'd get off the broadband schtick and onto the high-speed schtick (which is what you're really asking about) then we might get somewhere. At one time, PacBell almost had 10Mbps to the home (HFC). Yes, it was asymetric. ATT/TCI brings such speed. 802.11b carriers (Sprint, et al) are trying to bring in symetric 11 Mbps. The we have the local telcos where affordability seems to top out at T1 speeds (1.54Mbps). SDSL seems to top out there as well. Yes, I am not interested in asymetric services. Every study I have done indicates that most users would do more symetric usage if they can. Email is only an asymetric service if you allow spam. Otherwise, it is almost 1:1. Mailing lists are different, but an amazing number of people are not on any mailing list whatsoever. There are a finite number of programs that one can download. Most folks don't download and install software everyday. Also, now that the "new" is wearing off the web, you don't see as much random surf traffic there either. Instant messaging is usually person:person and IRC is falling out due to cracker problems. VOIP is also very symetric, even for teleconfrences. Usage is getting more purposful. Those who do not do "computing" for a living are limiting their Internet time in order to get real work done. As that occurs, usage should get more symetric. This becomes moreso if the user is running personal web pages (which most asymetric service providers do not allow) for a small business or cottage industry site. Another factor is that the rise in home LANs should actually reduce the need for high-speed access (the local server then plays "store and forward"). Personally, I'd like to see switched FDX 10baseT to the home. That's why I went to work for PacBell/ACN, in 1995. There was a chance of actually making that happen. Unfortunately, that window was closed by SBC in 1997 (We had 10K users online and 3 million homes passed). -- From: Larry Diffey [mailto:ldiffey@technologyforward.com] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 2:35 PM The question then remains: What (in your opinion) constitutes broadband according to the services that have been promised to consumers but not yet delivered? Yes, I understand that it's not just speed, but take everything else into account when you consider the minimum speed.
At one time, PacBell almost had 10Mbps to the home (HFC). Yes, it was asymetric. ATT/TCI brings such speed. 802.11b carriers (Sprint, et al) are trying to bring in symetric 11 Mbps. The we have the local telcos where affordability seems to top out at T1 speeds (1.54Mbps). SDSL seems to top out there as well.
i've got a cable modem. it beats the pants of dialup service, which only just before had had it's pants beaten off by my ricochet modem (which still works, by the way). i'm investigating 802.11b stuff for my house. symetric 11 Mbps sounds...goofy. especially if based on 802.11b, which utilizes a broadcast mechanism. besides, i've yet to meet *anyone* who got past about 2/3 of the theoretical "bandwidth" of 802.11b. imho, it's the spinal tap of the networking era (it "goes to 11", but is actually just a rumor and sort of made up). -- |-----< "CODE WARRIOR" >-----| codewarrior@daemon.org * "ah! i see you have the internet twofsonet@graffiti.com (Andrew Brown) that goes *ping*!" andrew@crossbar.com * "information is power -- share the wealth."
Once upon a time, Andrew Brown <twofsonet@graffiti.com> said:
symetric 11 Mbps sounds...goofy. especially if based on 802.11b, which utilizes a broadcast mechanism. besides, i've yet to meet *anyone* who got past about 2/3 of the theoretical "bandwidth" of 802.11b. imho, it's the spinal tap of the networking era (it "goes to 11", but is actually just a rumor and sort of made up).
802.11b is 11Mbps (at the top end), but that includes signalling overhead. There is a lot of overhead involved in the protocol (think like ATM where you can't get 11Mbps of IP traffic through an 11Mbps ATM link). Also, 802.11b is "half-duplex"; only one side can be transmitting at a time (like plain old Ethernet with either 10Base2 or 10BaseT and a dumb hub). -- Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net> Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:53:19AM -0400, Andrew Brown wrote:
symetric 11 Mbps sounds...goofy. especially if based on 802.11b, which utilizes a broadcast mechanism. besides, i've yet to meet *anyone* who got past about 2/3 of the theoretical "bandwidth" of 802.11b. imho, it's the spinal tap of the networking era (it "goes to 11", but is actually just a rumor and sort of made up).
I believe you will find 802.11b performs about as well, on average, as 10 meg shared ethernet. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org Systems Engineer - Internetworking Engineer - CCIE 3440 Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org
Unless you are using one of the SOHO access point units (my sample sample space=2) in which case, the performance falls off rapidly when interior or exterior walls are in the way! At 12:51 PM 7/6/2001 -0400, Leo Bicknell wrote:
On Fri, Jul 06, 2001 at 09:53:19AM -0400, Andrew Brown wrote:
symetric 11 Mbps sounds...goofy. especially if based on 802.11b, which utilizes a broadcast mechanism. besides, i've yet to meet *anyone* who got past about 2/3 of the theoretical "bandwidth" of 802.11b. imho, it's the spinal tap of the networking era (it "goes to 11", but is actually just a rumor and sort of made up).
I believe you will find 802.11b performs about as well, on average, as 10 meg shared ethernet.
-- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org Systems Engineer - Internetworking Engineer - CCIE 3440 Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org
participants (5)
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Andrew Brown -
Chris Adams -
Leo Bicknell -
Roeland Meyer -
Tom Lettington