Hi, My impression from this thread is the following: 1). Alot of folks feel the same way I do. 2). Some others don't care. 3). Major Tier1 providers are either not represented on this list, or don't care. 4). After a rather interesting discussion, no one is willing to do a darn thing about the problem except talk. So, after this grim summary, I suggest to all of you that do want to make a difference sometime, and also to Tier1 representatives that are interested in cooperation, better service and a better Internet to reply to me, in private even, if sending to the list makes you feel ackward. My aim is to compile a list of people that are willing to write and help educated others in the proper ways to configure a network, with a global perspective in mind. thanks, --Ariel P.S. About AADS, I find their whole dealing with their downtime a disgrace. Nothing in the press, nothing to mailing lists, nothing on their WEB site. Moreover, we got some incredibly *rude* answers from Genuity today, answers unbecoming of network professionals, and although I can understand the kind of pressures they've been under, whomever answered us (no names) should take some courtesy lessons, since he makes their whole ISP customer service center look pretty bad. -- Ariel Biener e-mail: ariel@post.tau.ac.il Work phone: 03-6406086 fingerprint = 07 D1 E5 3E EF 6D E5 82 0B E9 21 D4 3C 7D 8B BC