Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion
You better hope a court strikes that interpretation down, Dean. If it holds, then it would mean that the reverse could also be true. Imagine one of your users posts something defamatory to the Chinese government on their web site, and a Chinese web browser picks it up. Congratulations, your network just sent information into China that violates Chinese law. Better hope we don't sign an extradition treaty with them any time soon. Similar crimes, albeit with less nasty punishments, could happen with countries with which we *DO* have extradition treaties. This is a can of worms that will bite us all in the ass, if opened. Fortunately, I doubt that you'll get far. I sure hope you don't. I'd hate to see what happens if, say, somebody uses my email server to send a death threat to, say, the President of France. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Anderson" <dean@av8.com> To: "Adrian J Close" <adrian@esec.com.au> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion
I've already spoken with FBI about juridiction. FBI considers crimes against US computers to be US crimes, even when initiated from foriegn countries. They can extradite for this. That it originated from NZ isn't an issue. While the FBI agreed that these were indeed violations, my initial complaint was not prosecuted because we could at the time only come up with $900 in damages. We are closing on the $100K mark, where I'll make an updated complaint, which I hope will get more attention.
Heck, I think it'd be funny for French Canadian officials to demand that a US company advertise in French. :) I think it'd be especially nifty if they chose Dean's company as a "test case". He offers consulting services... he's offering them to anyone, which means that, using Dean's interpretation of the law, a Canadian official could claim that he was committing a crime in the Province of Quebec by not using French as the language on his web site. :) D At 06:51 PM 1/10/00 -0500, Shawn McMahon wrote:
You better hope a court strikes that interpretation down, Dean.
If it holds, then it would mean that the reverse could also be true.
Imagine one of your users posts something defamatory to the Chinese government on their web site, and a Chinese web browser picks it up.
Congratulations, your network just sent information into China that violates Chinese law.
Better hope we don't sign an extradition treaty with them any time soon.
Similar crimes, albeit with less nasty punishments, could happen with countries with which we *DO* have extradition treaties.
This is a can of worms that will bite us all in the ass, if opened. Fortunately, I doubt that you'll get far.
I sure hope you don't. I'd hate to see what happens if, say, somebody uses my email server to send a death threat to, say, the President of France.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Anderson" <dean@av8.com> To: "Adrian J Close" <adrian@esec.com.au> Cc: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2000 5:00 PM Subject: Re: Netgate.net.nz/ORBS spam colusion
I've already spoken with FBI about juridiction. FBI considers crimes against US computers to be US crimes, even when initiated from foriegn countries. They can extradite for this. That it originated from NZ isn't an issue. While the FBI agreed that these were indeed violations, my initial complaint was not prosecuted because we could at the time only come up with $900 in damages. We are closing on the $100K mark, where I'll make an updated complaint, which I hope will get more attention.
On Mon, 10 Jan 2000, Derek J. Balling wrote:
He offers consulting services... he's offering them to anyone, which means that, using Dean's interpretation of the law, a Canadian official could claim that he was committing a crime in the Province of Quebec by not using French as the language on his web site. :)
And if anything disparaging about the chinese government were to appear on his web site, he could be extradited and put to death! It would be glorious... -Dan
At 04:43 PM 1/10/00 -0800, Dan Hollis wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2000, Derek J. Balling wrote:
He offers consulting services... he's offering them to anyone, which means that, using Dean's interpretation of the law, a Canadian official could claim that he was committing a crime in the Province of Quebec by not using French as the language on his web site. :)
And if anything disparaging about the chinese government were to appear on his web site, he could be extradited and put to death!
It would be glorious...
Yeah, but I picked Canada because extradition between Canada and the US is VERY commonplace, I suspect, far more so than between the US and China. :) Although admittedly, it would give me a newfound respect for the Chinese if they were go after him. :) D
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Dan Hollis said:
And if anything disparaging about the chinese government were to appear on his web site, he could be extradited and put to death!
Who gets his organs..... Abby-Who? -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
participants (5)
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Dan Hollis -
David Lesher -
Derek J. Balling -
Randy Bush -
Shawn McMahon