RE: Airplane crashing into Atlanta-NAP
Michael Dillon brilliantly wrote....
The only joke here is that some people think that the Internet exchange
a city the size and importance of Atlanta can be adequately housed on
in the
5th story of an office building.
I could understand it if Atlanta had 20 or 30 exchange points, but when there is only one exchange the city deserves better than a mickey-mouse 5th floor operation.
Oh, I agree wholeheartedly!!!!! And who would ever imagine that an exchange point in the basement of a mere parking garage would have achieved the level of traffic it has! Now that I've thrown in my share of late night sarcasm, It would interest me greatly to understand exactly why you came to the following conclusions: 1. The "operation" in Atlanta is Mickey Mouse 2. The floor # of a bulding affects the quality of the Exchange Point 3. The type of building affect the quality of the Exchange Point 4. A city the size of Atlanta needs more than 1 Exchange Point Truly I would be very interested in your thoughts on these items, as well may a few other folks on this list. Chris A. Icide Nap.Net, L.L.C.
On Sun, 27 Oct 1996, Chris A. Icide wrote:
Now that I've thrown in my share of late night sarcasm, It would interest me greatly to understand exactly why you came to the following conclusions:
1. The "operation" in Atlanta is Mickey Mouse
Both the Internet and the POTS system are telecommunications networks that are vital to the modern economy. POTS moreso than the Internet right now but the Internet is certainly heading in that direction. POTS exchanges are always in ground floor concrete buildings with no windows or underground. But in Atlanta they stick it up on the 5th floor of some office building?!?!?!?
2. The floor # of a bulding affects the quality of the Exchange Point 3. The type of building affect the quality of the Exchange Point
I cannot explain these ones but have reached this conclusion from observing how the phone company builds and locates its exchanges.
4. A city the size of Atlanta needs more than 1 Exchange Point
It has a lot more than one POTS exchange. Thus it will need more than 1 Internet exchange. Why should the packets from every video-call in the city all travel downtown when frequently the two parties live in the same neighborhood?
Truly I would be very interested in your thoughts on these items, as well may a few other folks on this list.
I'm taking a long term view in which ISP's are just another form of telephone company. Many ISP's are now getting to the size where they can consider aquiring strategically located properties, building concrete block exchange/colo buildings, wiring up entire office towers with IP fiber and even running their own fibre in some case, especially in new subdivisions. By today's standards Atlanta-NAP may be a really great thing, but too soon we will discover that we aren't living in "today" any more and the standards will be different. Michael Dillon - ISP & Internet Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-604-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com
The talk of the Atlanta NAP is quite interesting, but nobody has addressed the biggest issue of these "regional" IXPs. Are the big guys going to come? How good is the Atlanta NAP, Mae-LA, Mae-Dallas, etc. if MCI, Sprint, ANS, UUNET, BBNPlanet and PSI don't go there? They account for easily over 75% of the Internet traffic. So far, none of those guys have come to any of the regional IXPs. On that note, I could care less if a plane crashes into Atlanta NAP, it certainly isn't going to affect 99.9% of the world's Internet Traffic. We are wasting energy on discussing these wonderful places to house IXPs. Are private exchanges where it is truly at? UUNET seems to have taken the lead on this form of exchange.. is everyone else following? Does that tie into guaranteed availability? Where does that leave the regional IXP? Are others willing to spend 5k-20k a month at a regional IXP if it only offloads 1k worth of traffic? I know we are not. Sorry to uplevel.. but I think this merits more discussion before the details. Rob
Are the big guys going to come? How good is the Atlanta NAP, Mae-LA, Mae-Dallas, etc. if MCI, Sprint, ANS, UUNET, BBNPlanet and PSI don't go there?
While your point is in general valid, UUNET is at MAE-Houston. --asp@partan.com (Andrew Partan)
I was almost tempted to keep UUNET off that list, as I don't think anyone knows how hard MFS will push them to join all the Maes in order to attract more business.. i.e., if MFS can get UUNET to join at x dollars, and they perceive that by having UUNET join it will spawn n*x dollars in revenue, it may be in the overall goal of the parent company. Strange.. Then again, I haven't seen any move by Sprint in a similar fashion i.e. if you join Sprint NAP, Sprint will peer with you. Rob
Are the big guys going to come? How good is the Atlanta NAP, Mae-LA, Mae-Dallas, etc. if MCI, Sprint, ANS, UUNET, BBNPlanet and PSI don't go there?
While your point is in general valid, UUNET is at MAE-Houston. --asp@partan.com (Andrew Partan)
Since MFS now owns UUNet (keeping Worldcom out of the discussion), does that mean that MFS may 'encourage' UUnet to appear at all MFS NAPS? in turn generating more revenue for the company.... Also, hasn't UUnet re-evaluated their peering policies in the last few months and this may run counter to those policies? Ed On Sun, 27 Oct 1996, Andrew Partan wrote:
Are the big guys going to come? How good is the Atlanta NAP, Mae-LA, Mae-Dallas, etc. if MCI, Sprint, ANS, UUNET, BBNPlanet and PSI don't go there?
While your point is in general valid, UUNET is at MAE-Houston. --asp@partan.com (Andrew Partan)
Since MFS now owns UUNet (keeping Worldcom out of the discussion), does that mean that MFS may 'encourage' UUnet to appear at all MFS NAPS? in turn generating more revenue for the company.... Also, hasn't UUnet re-evaluated their peering policies in the last few months and this may run counter to those policies?
Got me - ask someone who represents UUNET. --asp@partan.com (Andrew Partan)
But in Atlanta they stick it up on the 5th floor of some office building?!?!?!?
Lets see - MAE-East - in a garage MAE-West/MFS side - 11th floor of a building Main Sprint POP in WDC - in a garage Main IXC interconnect point in LA - in an old building Main IXC interconnect point in Seattle - in a building The only real 'bunkers' that I've seen are Pensauken and PAIX. Before you start throwing too many stones at Atlanta, please compare it with what is out there. Most telco infrastructure is in some j-random building someplace. Very few are real 'bunkers', however most are quite adequate. --asp@partan.com (Andrew Partan)
Andrew Partan writes:
Most telco infrastructure is in some j-random building someplace.
Most Telco infrastructure is, in fact, in specially designed windowless buildings which used to come in several standard designs. Here in New York City, there is one major exception to this -- 60 Hudson which is a major intercarrier locus is the old western union building. However, thats (as I said) unusual -- most of the switching centers in New York are windowless skyscrapers with concrete outside walls. Old AT&T had *very* strict standards on the construction and setting of these buildings -- the so-called NEBS standards, I remember. Engineering and Ops in the Bell System should have a chapter on it. Perry
On Sun, 27 Oct 1996, Andrew Partan wrote:
But in Atlanta they stick it up on the 5th floor of some office building?!?!?!?
Lets see - MAE-East - in a garage MAE-West/MFS side - 11th floor of a building Main Sprint POP in WDC - in a garage Main IXC interconnect point in LA - in an old building Main IXC interconnect point in Seattle - in a building
The only real 'bunkers' that I've seen are Pensauken and PAIX.
We actually looked at a old silo, but ran into problems getting people to trench fiber to it. :-) Nathan Stratton CEO, NetRail, Inc. Tracking the future today! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phone (703)524-4800 NetRail, Inc. Fax (703)534-5033 2007 N. 15 St. Suite 5 Email sales@netrail.net Arlington, Va. 22201 WWW http://www.netrail.net/ Access: (703) 524-4802 guest --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Matthew 6:34
On Sun, 27 Oct 1996 08:21:57 -0800 (PST) Michael Dillon <michael@memra.com> wrote:
2. The floor # of a bulding affects the quality of the Exchange Point 3. The type of building affect the quality of the Exchange Point
You might want to take another look at your local telco. BCtel has an awful lot of switching gear (all the Datapac nodes, T3/fractional video switching (including the CBC and BCTV regional feeds) and who knows what else running from facilities located several (9?) floors above ground level in downtown Vancouver. (I can't remember the exact location -- it's been a few year since I was there -- but it's right downtown, maybe on Hastings?) --lyndon
On Sun, 27 Oct 1996, Chris A. Icide wrote:
Now that I've thrown in my share of late night sarcasm, It would interest me greatly to understand exactly why you came to the following conclusions: (...) 4. A city the size of Atlanta needs more than 1 Exchange Point
Well, considering that the only options for the entire southeast consist of A) Dallas, and B) DC, I'd say that you have a large amount of traffic which has to be long-hauled at significant expense to the nearest exchange point. Ever since rural electrification was finished, we southerners tend to enjoy our electronics like everyone else, and while the northeast and California are virtually drowning in access points, and while the mid-west has Chicago, we've got squat. Consider if you will how much traffic comes out of places like Florida and Research Triangle Park and the number of relatively large cities throughout the southeast (Memphis, New Orleans, Birmingham, Nashville, Atlanta, Miami, Tampa, Charlotte, etc.) which are proximate to no access point. For all of these places, Atlanta is the logical and really only major communications hub. Virtually all of the major backbones centralize their southeastern operations out of here, and it is the major hub for telephoony as well. I'd say that Atlanta is a prime battleground, and that the southeast is the last major area of the US without a serious exchange point, which is why I predict that there will be three competing NAPs in Atlanta within the next six months. Of course, only one will win. Now, if I could get one of them in my apartment... __ Todd Graham Lewis Linux! Core Engineering Mindspring Enterprises tlewis@mindspring.com (800) 719 4664, x2804
participants (9)
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Andrew Partan -
Chris A. Icide -
Edward Fang -
Lyndon Nerenberg -
Michael Dillon -
Nathan Stratton -
Perry E. Metzger -
Robert Bowman -
Todd Graham Lewis