I tried to notify UUNET at their 800-900-0241 number that there was a loop in their network. They told me that if I didnt have an account with them they were not interested in any information that I may have had for them. I stated that I was just calling so that they could pass the information onto an engineer. He repeated himself saying if you do not have an account with us I will not do anything with the information. I guess they think they run the internet and us small ISPs couldnt possibly know anything... In case someone at UUNET reads this here is the traceroute. ================================================== === VisualRoute report on 12-Apr-02 3:04:18 PM === ================================================== Report for online.mmsi-usa.com [162.33.138.132] Analysis: The routing loop (65.195.230.218 / 162.33.130.4 / 162.33.128.249 / 205.197.182.201 / 162.33.138.129 / 65.195.230.217) starting in hops 12-17 is not allowing IP packets to get to their destination. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------- | Hop | %Loss | IP Address | Node Name | Location | Tzone | ms | Graph | Network | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------- | 0 | | 10.100.15.40 | BRADLEY.nefmls.com | ... | | | | (private use) | | 1 | | 209.12.49.1 | - | ?Jacksonville, FL 32256 | | 1 | x | Northeast Florida MLS | | 2 | | 206.222.124.121 | - | ?Herndon, VA 20165 | | 3 | x | e.spire Communications, Inc. | | 3 | | 206.222.126.77 | washing2-dc-a5-0-0-10.rt.espire.net | - | | 27 | x-- | e.spire Communications, Inc. | | 4 | | 206.222.127.118 | reston-va-1-pos0-0-0.rt.espire.net | - | | 37 | x--- | e.spire Communications, Inc. | | 5 | | 198.32.187.97 | mae-east-level3.com | Vienna, VA, USA | | 133 | --x- | Exchange Point Blocks | | 6 | | 64.159.18.98 | ae0-54.mp2.Washington1.Level3.net | Washington, DC, USA | -05:00 | 137 | -x--- | Level 3 Communications, Inc. | | 7 | | 64.159.0.110 | so-0-0-0.mp1.Philadelphia1.Level3.net | Philadelphia, PA, USA | -05:00 | 147 | -x------ | Level 3 Communications, Inc. | | 8 | | 64.159.0.150 | gige9-0.hsipaccess2.Philadelphia1.Level3.net | Philadelphia, PA, USA | -05:00 | 137 | -x---- | Level 3 Communications, Inc. | | 9 | | 63.208.101.158 | unknown.Level3.net | - | | 147 | -x------- | Level 3 Communications, Inc. | | 10 | | 162.33.162.25 | 401n--30th-st--phily.coretel.net | ?Annapolis, MD 21401 | | 139 | --x---- | Core Communications, Inc. | | 11 | 10 | 162.33.162.29 | baltamtrak-p.highway.coretel.net | ?Annapolis, MD 21401 | | 146 | -x------ | Core Communications, Inc. | | 12 | | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 142 | -x---- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 13 | | 162.33.130.4 | i97.toad.net | ?Woodbridge, NJ 07095 | | 124 | --x-- | RAM Communications Consultants, Inc. | | 14 | | 162.33.128.249 | tiara-2-balto.ds1.toad.net | ?Woodbridge, NJ 07095 | | 134 | -x---- | RAM Communications Consultants, Inc. | | 15 | | 205.197.182.201 | max2.toad.net | ?Severna Park, MD 21146 | | 146 | -x-- | ToadNet, Inc. | | 16 | | 162.33.138.129 | mmsi-cpe.dsllan.toad.net | ?Woodbridge, NJ 07095 | | 198 | -x--- | RAM Communications Consultants, Inc. | | 17 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 147 | x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 18 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 154 | -x---- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 19 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 154 | -x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 20 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 170 | --x--- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 21 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 131 | -x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 22 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 150 | -x--- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 23 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 159 | -x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 24 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 171 | -x--- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 25 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 169 | -x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 26 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 188 | -x---- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 27 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 169 | x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 28 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 191 | x----- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 29 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 179 | x--- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 30 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 188 | -x---- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 31 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 179 | -x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 32 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 163 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 33 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 184 | -x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 34 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 168 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 35 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 166 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 36 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 185 | -x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 37 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 161 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 38 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 210 | --x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 39 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 152 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 40 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 167 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 41 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 176 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 42 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 164 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 43 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 173 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 44 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 158 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 45 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 168 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 46 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 166 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 47 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 159 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 48 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 140 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 49 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 145 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 50 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 170 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 51 | 70 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 137 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 52 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 133 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 53 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 142 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 54 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 147 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 55 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 143 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 56 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 156 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 57 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 167 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 58 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 167 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 59 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 170 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 60 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 174 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 61 | 70 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 173 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 62 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 178 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 63 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 186 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 64 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 183 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | ... | | | | | | | | | | ? | | 162.33.138.132 | online.mmsi-usa.com | ?Woodbridge, NJ 07095 | | | | RAM Communications Consultants, Inc. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------- Roundtrip time to 65.195.230.218, average = 183ms, min = 152ms, max = 210ms -- 12-Apr-02 3:04:18 PM Bradley Corner Northeast Florida Multiple Listing Service, Inc. 7801 Deecreek Club Rd Ste 1 Jacksonville FL 32217 (904) 394-9494
To me, that looks more like an outage (now fixed) on a customer network. The 'loop' between 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET and core62007-gw.customer.alter.net, could likely be caused by UU's customer advertising an aggregate route to UU, but not actually having a route to the IP...so they default back to UU, and UU sends it back to the customer. This was likely a problem on the customer's network, so why should UUNet take a trouble report from you? Not only are you not _the_ customer, you're not even a customer, and it's likely not a problem they can do anything about. If it really were a UUNet problem, they probably assume their customer will report it.
| 37 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 161 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 38 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 210 | --x | UUNET
On Fri, 12 Apr 2002, Bradley Corner wrote:
I tried to notify UUNET at their 800-900-0241 number that there was a loop in their network. They told me that if I didnt have an account with them they were not interested in any information that I may have had for them. I stated that I was just calling so that they could pass the information onto an engineer. He repeated himself saying if you do not have an account with us I will not do anything with the information. I guess they think they run the internet and us small ISPs couldnt possibly know anything...
In case someone at UUNET reads this here is the traceroute.
================================================== === VisualRoute report on 12-Apr-02 3:04:18 PM === ==================================================
Report for online.mmsi-usa.com [162.33.138.132]
Analysis: The routing loop (65.195.230.218 / 162.33.130.4 / 162.33.128.249 / 205.197.182.201 / 162.33.138.129 / 65.195.230.217) starting in hops 12-17 is not allowing IP packets to get to their destination.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------- | Hop | %Loss | IP Address | Node Name | Location | Tzone | ms | Graph | Network | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------- | 0 | | 10.100.15.40 | BRADLEY.nefmls.com | ... | | | | (private use) | | 1 | | 209.12.49.1 | - | ?Jacksonville, FL 32256 | | 1 | x | Northeast Florida MLS | | 2 | | 206.222.124.121 | - | ?Herndon, VA 20165 | | 3 | x | e.spire Communications, Inc. | | 3 | | 206.222.126.77 | washing2-dc-a5-0-0-10.rt.espire.net | - | | 27 | x-- | e.spire Communications, Inc. | | 4 | | 206.222.127.118 | reston-va-1-pos0-0-0.rt.espire.net | - | | 37 | x--- | e.spire Communications, Inc. | | 5 | | 198.32.187.97 | mae-east-level3.com | Vienna, VA, USA | | 133 | --x- | Exchange Point Blocks | | 6 | | 64.159.18.98 | ae0-54.mp2.Washington1.Level3.net | Washington, DC, USA | -05:00 | 137 | -x--- | Level 3 Communications, Inc. | | 7 | | 64.159.0.110 | so-0-0-0.mp1.Philadelphia1.Level3.net | Philadelphia, PA, USA | -05:00 | 147 | -x------ | Level 3 Communications, Inc. | | 8 | | 64.159.0.150 | gige9-0.hsipaccess2.Philadelphia1.Level3.net | Philadelphia, PA, USA | -05:00 | 137 | -x---- | Level 3 Communications, Inc. | | 9 | | 63.208.101.158 | unknown.Level3.net | - | | 147 | -x------- | Level 3 Communications, Inc. | | 10 | | 162.33.162.25 | 401n--30th-st--phily.coretel.net | ?Annapolis, MD 21401 | | 139 | --x---- | Core Communications, Inc. | | 11 | 10 | 162.33.162.29 | baltamtrak-p.highway.coretel.net | ?Annapolis, MD 21401 | | 146 | -x------ | Core Communications, Inc. | | 12 | | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 142 | -x---- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 13 | | 162.33.130.4 | i97.toad.net | ?Woodbridge, NJ 07095 | | 124 | --x-- | RAM Communications Consultants, Inc. | | 14 | | 162.33.128.249 | tiara-2-balto.ds1.toad.net | ?Woodbridge, NJ 07095 | | 134 | -x---- | RAM Communications Consultants, Inc. | | 15 | | 205.197.182.201 | max2.toad.net | ?Severna Park, MD 21146 | | 146 | -x-- | ToadNet, Inc. | | 16 | | 162.33.138.129 | mmsi-cpe.dsllan.toad.net | ?Woodbridge, NJ 07095 | | 198 | -x--- | RAM Communications Consultants, Inc. | | 17 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 147 | x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 18 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 154 | -x---- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 19 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 154 | -x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 20 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 170 | --x--- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 21 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 131 | -x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 22 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 150 | -x--- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 23 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 159 | -x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 24 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 171 | -x--- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 25 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 169 | -x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 26 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 188 | -x---- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 27 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 169 | x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 28 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 191 | x----- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 29 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 179 | x--- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 30 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 188 | -x---- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 31 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 179 | -x-- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 32 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 163 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 33 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 184 | -x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 34 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 168 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 35 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 166 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 36 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 185 | -x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 37 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 161 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 38 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 210 | --x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 39 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 152 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 40 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 167 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 41 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 176 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 42 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 164 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 43 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 173 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 44 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 158 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 45 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 168 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 46 | 50 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 166 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 47 | 50 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 159 | x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 48 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 140 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 49 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 145 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 50 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 170 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 51 | 70 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 137 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 52 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 133 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 53 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 142 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 54 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 147 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 55 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 143 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 56 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 156 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 57 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 167 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 58 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 167 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 59 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 170 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 60 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 174 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 61 | 70 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 173 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 62 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 178 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 63 | 60 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET | Baltimore, MD, USA | -05:00 | 186 | -x | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | 64 | 60 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net | - | | 183 | x- | UUNET Technologies, Inc. | | ... | | | | | | | | | | ? | | 162.33.138.132 | online.mmsi-usa.com | ?Woodbridge, NJ 07095 | | | | RAM Communications Consultants, Inc. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------- Roundtrip time to 65.195.230.218, average = 183ms, min = 152ms, max = 210ms -- 12-Apr-02 3:04:18 PM
Bradley Corner Northeast Florida Multiple Listing Service, Inc. 7801 Deecreek Club Rd Ste 1 Jacksonville FL 32217 (904) 394-9494
-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Lewis *jlewis@lewis.org*| I route System Administrator | therefore you are Atlantic Net | _________ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_________
Also sprach jlewis@lewis.org
To me, that looks more like an outage (now fixed) on a customer network. The 'loop' between 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET and core62007-gw.customer.alter.net, could likely be caused by UU's customer advertising an aggregate route to UU, but not actually having a route to the IP...so they default back to UU, and UU sends it back to the customer.
That was my thought when I saw the (mangled) traceroute.
This was likely a problem on the customer's network, so why should UUNet take a trouble report from you?
This is a really crappy attitude...but its one I hear from a lot of Internet providers, and that I frequently hear from telco's too. I make the argument that its *not* in the provider's best interest to take this attitude. Basically, what you are saying is that you really don't care of your network actually *works* or not. I'll take a credible trouble report about my network from anyone. (Note the use of the term "credible" there) If my network is operating in some sub-standard way, I want to know about it, and I don't care of I find out about it from a customer or from some random person halfway around the globe. To be quite honest, the mindset of "You're not our customer, I won't take your report about our network being screwed up," boggles my mind. Like I said...I get the same attitude from telco's (particularly BellSouth that I deal with a lot), and it blows my mind. BellSouth has *NO* way for me, as someone that deals with the PSTN a *LOT*, and has the ability to correlate reports of problems and determine where there are likely significant problems, to report problems to them because "I'm not the customer." They would rather calls not be completely than to be pointed to where their network is broken by a non-customer. Where is the logic in that? The most recent example of this was that we were having customer from 2 CO's (actually, one CO and one remote node off that CO) that were unable to complete ISDN data calls to us. It took BellSouth over 3 days to fix this when they could've had it fixed in less than 2 hours if they had just taken my trouble report. I can even extend this to equipment vendors. I've had more than one equipment vendor that refused to take a bug report from me (even a blatent security vulnerability in one case!) because I didn't have a support contract. *blink* I'm doing your work for you, and you refuse to accept my gift of my troubleshooting time and effort. So...in this case with uu.net. Take the report, it takes about 2 seconds to come to the conclusion that we have here. That being, this is likely a customer with a default pointed back...nothing we can do about. Then you dump the report in the circular file and go about your merry way. -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456
On Fri, Apr 12, 2002 at 04:04:42PM -0400, Bradley Corner wrote:
I tried to notify UUNET at their 800-900-0241 number that there was a loop in their network. They told me that if I didnt have an account with them they were not interested in any information that I may have had for them. I stated that I was just calling so that they could pass the information onto an engineer. He repeated himself saying if you do not have an account with us I will not do anything with the information. I guess they think they run the internet and us small ISPs couldnt possibly know anything...
I don't think this is a UUnet problem. -snip-
12 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net 13 | 162.33.130.4 | i97.toad.net 14 | 162.33.128.249 | tiara-2-balto.ds1.toad.net 15 | 205.197.182.201 | max2.toad.net 16 | 162.33.138.129 | mmsi-cpe.dsllan.toad.net 17 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET 18 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net 19 | 65.195.230.217 | 500.Serial2-11.GW4.BWI1.ALTER.NET 20 | 65.195.230.218 | core62007-gw.customer.alter.net -snip-
To me, it looks like the customer has no internal route for this address and is defaulting to UUnet. The customer's default is the cause of the apparent loop, not anything UUnet is doing. Judging by the various toad.net hops before the loop becomes apparent, this may be caused by route instability inside the customer's network. Either way, this is not a UUnet issue. Their policies aside, I'm not sure what you want them to do about this. Incidentally, normal UNIX-style traceroute formats much better for email. --msa
participants (4)
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Bradley Corner -
Jeff Mcadams -
jlewis＠lewis.org -
Majdi S. Abbas