So far, that sounds like nice basis for a class action lawsuit. Imagine a land title company throwing away records just because they lost a payment receipt. That's what InterNIC is doing. My experience with InterNIC was that i managed to get hold of actual person, and got assurances that everything's ok. Then i see nothing happened in the database, so i call again, and they tell the information "is not there yet". Now, i go to the automatic system and make a card payment -- the system gives back authorization code, etc. Guess what. It still says the domain registration is not paid. I think it is time ISPs take the matter in their hands. I.e. let ISPs to perform registrations. Root serer operators can ensure uniqueness just fine. --vadim
On Thu, Mar 20, 1997 at 07:39:14PM -0800, Vadim Antonov wrote:
So far, that sounds like nice basis for a class action lawsuit.
Imagine a land title company throwing away records just because they lost a payment receipt. That's what InterNIC is doing.
My experience with InterNIC was that i managed to get hold of actual person, and got assurances that everything's ok. Then i see nothing happened in the database, so i call again, and they tell the information "is not there yet". Now, i go to the automatic system and make a card payment -- the system gives back authorization code, etc. Guess what. It still says the domain registration is not paid.
I think it is time ISPs take the matter in their hands. I.e. let ISPs to perform registrations. Root serer operators can ensure uniqueness just fine.
--vadim
You just described eDNS. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity http://www.mcs.net/~karl | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | 99 Analog numbers, 77 ISDN, Web servers $75/mo Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | 2 FULL DS-3 Internet links; 400Mbps B/W Internal
There used to be (and it may still exist) a record for the number of newsgroups/maillists that a thread would migrate to. Something like a parasite.... it would render its host devoid of useful content, driving productive work elsewhere, and then just as its host became a dry husk of its former self, the thread would hop to an other maillist/newsgroup and proceed to suck it dry as well... I'd start to put money on this thread.. the subject changes but the rant is the same. Three newdom's, one iahc, lots'o'private mail-filters, and now nanog? --bill
We have two seperate rants here. The nanog-completely-appropriate rant is that InterNIC has just screwed the pooch in a massive way and a hell of a lot of domains which have paid their bills don't exist anymore. I lost count before heading off to the Bay-LISA meeting tonight where Paul Vixie was talking about BIND 8... I've had dozens of "me too" responses. It's beginning to look like just about everyone may have customers who got bit by this, and what happened, why, and what's going to be done to fix it are or should be of interest to the big (and small) networks right now. The "what do we do about more roots/domains/etc" stuff is a different discussion not directly related to the current problem; I don't think anyone would harbor any illusions that we can get the problems fixed this week any way but InterNIC fixing them. But if InterNIC doesn't deal with this appropriately, next week it may be an issue with a half life of a week or two instead of a year or two as it has been so far. Whether it's nanog appropriate or not is another story. But my patience on this issue is running very thin right now. If InterNIC can't do its job, then they need to step aside or be forced aside. If they have lost the capability to accurately track payments and are now randomly cutting off service as a result, they are not doing their job, and the time that this can go on without becoming the over-riding problem for everyone won't be measured in months. I have yet to hear any official overall statement from InterNIC (Mark, are you on nanog?) or any replies related to my specific domain problem, and it's "good luck" on getting through on the phone this week as far as I can tell. So the question becomes, if InterNIC can't get it straightened out, what the hell do we do? -george william herbert gherbert@crl.com Speaking only for myself, see prior disclaimers
The "what do we do about more roots/domains/etc" stuff is a different discussion not directly related to the current problem; I don't think anyone would harbor any illusions that we can get the problems fixed this week any way but InterNIC fixing them. But if InterNIC doesn't deal with this appropriately, next week it may be an issue with a half life of a week or two instead of a year or two as it has been so far. Whether it's nanog appropriate or not is another story.
I think you need to petition IANA directly (Postel, at least, does not read NANOG that I know of) to freeze the .COM zone until InterNIC stops screwing up the billing. I take hardware from InterNIC, but I get my marching orders from IANA, and if he says "stop transferring new .COM zones from InterNIC" then I will make that change instantly, and so will the rest of the roots.
The Internic is really getting us crazy. I just talked with Hinet, that has 500,000 users, and they have tried very hard to get hold of Internic, but only end up with an answering machine. If Internic controls domain name, and domain name is so important to ISPs, Internic should AT LEAST provide a 24x7 support NOC center so that problems like this can be resoved quickly. We thought paying $50/year will give us some services, and now it seems to be just another way around. When AOL and Netcom were done for a few hours, it created such a big news in US. AOL and Netcom were at least having the choice of working Days & Nights to resolve the problems. Now Hinet has been down for two days, and similarly half million users are affected. They can do very little, but can only speak to the answering machine at Internic, and painfully waiting for Internic people come back to work the next day! The funny thing is that you can do nothing, but begging Internic to resolve the problem. Again, Hinet already has paid the fee 2 days ago (the fee was drawn from the bank) Anyone has a pager number of the Internic engineers? Hong Chen 408-567-3800 (tel) hchen@aimnet.net 408-567-0990 (fax) On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Vadim Antonov wrote:
So far, that sounds like nice basis for a class action lawsuit.
Imagine a land title company throwing away records just because they lost a payment receipt. That's what InterNIC is doing.
My experience with InterNIC was that i managed to get hold of actual person, and got assurances that everything's ok. Then i see nothing happened in the database, so i call again, and they tell the information "is not there yet". Now, i go to the automatic system and make a card payment -- the system gives back authorization code, etc. Guess what. It still says the domain registration is not paid.
I think it is time ISPs take the matter in their hands. I.e. let ISPs to perform registrations. Root serer operators can ensure uniqueness just fine.
--vadim
On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Vadim Antonov wrote:
So far, that sounds like nice basis for a class action lawsuit.
Imagine a land title company throwing away records just because they lost a payment receipt. That's what InterNIC is doing.
My experience with InterNIC was that i managed to get hold of actual person, and got assurances that everything's ok. Then i see nothing happened in the database, so i call again, and they tell the information "is not there yet". Now, i go to the automatic system and make a card payment -- the system gives back authorization code, etc. Guess what. It still says the domain registration is not paid.
I think it is time ISPs take the matter in their hands. I.e. let ISPs to perform registrations. Root serer operators can ensure uniqueness just fine.
Or endorse the IAHC proposal which removes the NSI monopoly, and adds global competition in the way of registrars. See www.iahc.org for details. eDNS jsut creates many monopolies and becomes a first come first serve land grab with thousands and perhaps millions of TLDs that would have to be monitored by trademark lawyers.
--vadim
Hank Nussbacher
Imagine a land title company throwing away records just because they lost a payment receipt. That's what InterNIC is doing.
Agree. InterNIC can't get invoices and credit cards correctly, and cause a lot of headache over the whole world. Through I don't think it's the subj. for NANOG. I know a lot of small companies who could not pay them at all (not because 50$ is expansive...). alex@kiae.su
I think it is time ISPs take the matter in their hands. I.e. let ISPs to perform registrations. Root serer operators can ensure uniqueness just fine.
this is definitely where we are headed if the IAHC proposal stalls. i'm already in contact with some of the larger ISPs about this subject.
On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Paul A Vixie wrote:
I think it is time ISPs take the matter in their hands. I.e. let ISPs to perform registrations. Root serer operators can ensure uniqueness just fine.
this is definitely where we are headed if the IAHC proposal stalls. i'm already in contact with some of the larger ISPs about this subject.
It's not bad enough that Mr. Postel throws out an RFC process mid stream and assumes god mode. Now you are pulling authority out of the air aswell? Guys if you want your god mode, play by the rules that you set down or go change those rules first! This "group of 7" b.s. is wearing very thin and you're only going to find more business consumers of the net legally dragging you across the carpet for it. Tim Gibson
It's not bad enough that Mr. Postel throws out an RFC process mid stream and assumes god mode. Now you are pulling authority out of the air aswell? Guys if you want your god mode, play by the rules that you set down or go change those rules first! This "group of 7" b.s. is wearing very thin and you're only going to find more business consumers of the net legally dragging you across the carpet for it.
Go ahead, drag me. But I'm not willing to let "." turn into babel, and if the IAHC process stalls, I will ask the large ISP's to take direct control.
On Fri, Mar 21, 1997 at 12:59:09PM -0500, Tim Gibson wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Paul A Vixie wrote:
I think it is time ISPs take the matter in their hands. I.e. let ISPs to perform registrations. Root serer operators can ensure uniqueness just fine.
this is definitely where we are headed if the IAHC proposal stalls. i'm already in contact with some of the larger ISPs about this subject.
It's not bad enough that Mr. Postel throws out an RFC process mid stream and assumes god mode. Now you are pulling authority out of the air aswell? Guys if you want your god mode, play by the rules that you set down or go change those rules first! This "group of 7" b.s. is wearing very thin and you're only going to find more business consumers of the net legally dragging you across the carpet for it.
Tim Gibson
Bingo. There has already been one Sherman Act related lawsuit filed. Collude with others and RICO gets added to the mix. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity http://www.mcs.net/~karl | T1's from $600 monthly to FULL DS-3 Service | 99 Analog numbers, 77 ISDN, Web servers $75/mo Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1 x219]| Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ Fax: [+1 312 803-4929] | 2 FULL DS-3 Internet links; 400Mbps B/W Internal
I've been on NANOG list since the day of NANOG 9. I subscribed to hopefully learn about current network operations issues and related software and hardware technologies. I got the impression that this was a professional trade mailing list. Then the messages started coming... So, here I am, reading messages about One World Government black helicopter teams who conspire to control network registries, from groups of ignored and (appropriately unempowered) people who seem to have root-server-envy, now I've read about how RICO laws are inferred to about to be applied to domain name registration. What the hell is going on here? It's wacky! I've really enjoyed reading about subjects that I assumed I would find on this list: BGP and flapping, technical discussion of spam management, network management tools, and network outages, etc. As the Interenet grows, so, it seems, do my filtering rules. I just didn't think I'd have to apply filters to a list with a subjectlike this. I guess I was wrong? :-) _________________________________________________________________________ Wayne D. Correia +1.415.826.6000 900 Tennessee Street fax +1.415.826.6100 San Francisco, CA 94107
What the hell is going on here? It's wacky!
I've really enjoyed reading about subjects that I assumed I would find on this list: BGP and flapping, technical discussion of spam management, network management tools, and network outages, etc.
Wayne, I do agree with you that the discussion should not be off the base too much, however, holding off an domain names of large ISPs cause the Network Outages, which are the discussions of this group. What are the technical solutions to bring the domain name back immediately, instead of waiting for Monday/Wed/Friday 5:00pm updates. To us as Network Operators, Internic is considered as our super network operator (anyone disagree with this?), as they have the power to shut down any ISP down any minute. We have 24x7 centers, shouldn't Internic have the similar one? 2 to 3 days unreachable domain names are serious Network Outages we NANOG members should look into. Hong
As the Interenet grows, so, it seems, do my filtering rules.. I just didn't think I'd have to apply filters to a list with a subjectlike this.
I guess I was wrong? :-)
_________________________________________________________________________ Wayne D. Correia +1.415.826.6000 900 Tennessee Street fax +1.415.826.6100 San Francisco, CA 94107
Please, Please! I have five domains that I have already paid for put on hold (or about to be put on hold in the next few days), I also have a zillion "Invoice" notices cc'd to us from internic sent to customers that I *know* have paid. Since we paid by credit card, I'm sure that we're going to have to pay them *again* (at least one domain has already been paid twice, this'll be the 3rd payment we have to make becuase internic can't find a record that we paid, and our CC bill doesn't have the name of the domain on it.) It's just gross incompetence, and at this point I don't have much choice but to throw the internic more of my money. -joe On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 09:34:32 -0800, Paul A Vixie <paul@vix.com> spaketh:
I think it is time ISPs take the matter in their hands. I.e. let ISPs to perform registrations. Root serer operators can ensure uniqueness just fine.
this is definitely where we are headed if the IAHC proposal stalls. i'm already in contact with some of the larger ISPs about this subject.
============================================================================= * NewsHub: Updated every 15 minutes/24 hours a day! * http://newshub.com/
participants (11)
-
Alex P. Rudnev -
bmanning＠ISI.EDU -
George Herbert -
Hank Nussbacher -
Hong Chen -
joe＠vpop.net -
Karl Denninger -
Paul A Vixie -
Tim Gibson -
Vadim Antonov -
Wayne D. Correia