Hello, I forward this on behalf of my colleague. (When my colleague send a message to nanog@merit.edu, his message is not published on the list. He don't get errors and he subscribed to nanog and nanog-post.) -----Forwarded Message----- From: Mike CHENEY <mike.cheney@ndsoftware.net> To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: EuroNOG (European Network Operators Group) Date: 04 Feb 2003 00:18:41 +0100 Hi folks, For european people, there is now a group called EuroNOG with about the same goals as Nanog. For more information: http://www.euronog.org/ For subscribe to EuroNOG mailing-list, send a mail to euronog-subscribe@ml.euronog.org. Regards, Mike Note: message resent because not received by the list. -----Forwarded Message----- Best Regards, -- Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
how/why is this proposed group distinct from the European Operator Forum?
Hello,
I forward this on behalf of my colleague.
(When my colleague send a message to nanog@merit.edu, his message is not published on the list. He don't get errors and he subscribed to nanog and nanog-post.)
-----Forwarded Message-----
From: Mike CHENEY <mike.cheney@ndsoftware.net> To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: EuroNOG (European Network Operators Group) Date: 04 Feb 2003 00:18:41 +0100
Hi folks,
For european people, there is now a group called EuroNOG with about the same goals as Nanog.
For more information: http://www.euronog.org/
For subscribe to EuroNOG mailing-list, send a mail to euronog-subscribe@ml.euronog.org.
Regards,
Mike
Note: message resent because not received by the list.
-----Forwarded Message-----
Best Regards,
-- Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 04:52:57PM -0800, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com <bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com> wrote a message of 45 lines which said:
how/why is this proposed group distinct from the European Operator Forum?
Bill, Nicolas Deffayet just wanted a NOG for himself. Let him play. For those who are not members of the 6bone or who do not know France, let's remind them that: * NDsoftware does not exist (it is not in the French directory of companies) * Mike Cheney does not exist (NDsoftware lists several english names because it is "more serious" but all of them are actually fake) * Euronog is just a spinoff of NDsoftware, no operator ever participated in it.
From: Mike CHENEY <mike.cheney@ndsoftware.net> To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: EuroNOG (European Network Operators Group) Date: 04 Feb 2003 00:18:41 +0100
Stephane, As in the output below when you go to their web site? " Forbidden You don't have permission to access / on this server. " __ Erik-Jan.
On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Erik-Jan Bos wrote:
As in the output below when you go to their web site?
http://www.euronog.org/ returns a page for me. Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal@ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre WWW: http://www.ripe.net/home/henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ That problem that we weren't having yesterday, is it better? (Big ISP NOC)
Henk,
http://www.euronog.org/ returns a page for me.
Go to Sponsers and click on the one and only sponsor. __ Erik-Jan.
On Tue, 2003-02-04 at 11:09, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: As requested by Pascal Gloor on EuroNOG mailing-list, i reply to Stephane's message. Flames & co > /dev/null
On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 04:52:57PM -0800, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com <bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com> wrote a message of 45 lines which said:
how/why is this proposed group distinct from the European Operator Forum?
Bill, Nicolas Deffayet just wanted a NOG for himself. Let him play.
For those who are not members of the 6bone or who do not know France, let's remind them that:
* NDsoftware does not exist (it is not in the French directory of companies)
NDSoftware exist.
* Mike Cheney does not exist (NDsoftware lists several english names because it is "more serious" but all of them are actually fake)
Mike CHENEY exist. Mike is (with 2 other people) the EuroNOG founder.
* Euronog is just a spinoff of NDsoftware, no operator ever participated in it.
EuroNOG is neutral. NDSoftware is just a sponsor for domain, website and hosting. There is many operators on euronog@ml.euronog.org and there are active: 1: First message 2 Feb 2003 Nicolas DEFFAYET 2: EuroNOG (European Network Operators Group) 3 Feb 2003 Mike CHENEY 3: lets start!!! 3 Feb 2003 Pascal Gloor 4: Re: lets start!!! 3 Feb 2003 Pascal Gloor 5: Re: lets start!!! 3 Feb 2003 Nicolas DEFFAYET 6: Welcome & Workgroup Proposal 4 Feb 2003 Jan Czmok 7: Re: Welcome & Workgroup Proposal 4 Feb 2003 Nicolas DEFFAYET 8: Re: lets start!!! 4 Feb 2003 Blindauer Emmanuel 9: TODO proposal 4 Feb 2003 Nicolas DEFFAYET 10: Re: TODO proposal 4 Feb 2003 Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC) 11: Re: TODO proposal 4 Feb 2003 Mike CHENEY 12: "...explain how Euronog will differ..." ? 4 Feb 2003 Jim Fleming 13: DDoS tracking WG 4 Feb 2003 Daniel Concepcion 14: Re: DDoS tracking WG 4 Feb 2003 Jim Fleming 15: Re: DDoS tracking WG 4 Feb 2003 Michael Hallgren 16: Re: DDoS tracking WG 4 Feb 2003 Daniel Concepcion 17: Re: TODO proposal 4 Feb 2003 Mike CHENEY 18: Re: DDoS tracking WG 5 Feb 2003 Mike CHENEY 19: explanations needed 5 Feb 2003 Pascal Gloor 20: Re: DDoS tracking WG 5 Feb 2003 Jan Czmok 21: Re: explanations needed 5 Feb 2003 Jim Fleming 22: Re: DDoS tracking WG 5 Feb 2003 Jan Czmok 23: Re: DDoS tracking WG 5 Feb 2003 Daniel Concepcion 24: NOC contact list...database development... 5 Feb 2003 Jim Fleming If you want subscribe to the mailing-list: euronog-subscribe@ml.euronog.org. -- Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware NDSoftware NOC: http://noc.ndsoftwarenet.com/ FNIX6: http://www.fnix6.net/ EuroNOG: http://www.euronog.org/
My co-Bill, the estimable Mr. Manning wrote: >>> how/why is this proposed group distinct from the European >>> Operator Forum? Mr. DEFAYET replied: > NDSoftware exist. > Mike CHENEY exist. > EuroNOG is neutral. However, I'm not sure that actually constituted an answer to the question. -Bill
My co-Bill, the estimable Mr. Manning wrote: >>> how/why is this proposed group distinct from the European >>> Operator Forum?
Mr. DEFAYET replied: > NDSoftware exist. > Mike CHENEY exist. > EuroNOG is neutral.
However, I'm not sure that actually constituted an answer to the question.
-Bill
I'm still waiting. --bill
On Wednesday 5 February 2003, at 0 h 54, bmanning@karoshi.com wrote:
> NDSoftware exist.
... I'm still waiting.
NDsoftware does not exist, at least as a company in France. It is *not* registered in any French directory of companies (check it out: http://www.societe.com/). Therefore, we can try the following hypothesis: 1) ND software does not exist 2) ND software is a non-profit society, not a company 3) ND software exists in a parallel universe 4) ND software is incorporated in Jersey, Monaco, Virgin Islands or the Bahamas, not in France
bmanning@karoshi.com wrote:
I'm still waiting.
I'm not worried about the existance of a purported legal entity that appears to be hosting a mailing list. The question I ask, and am still waiting for an answer to is; what are the differences (charter) between the European Operator Forum (eof) and the nasent EuroNOG? Young Nich. has failed to respond. I guess the question is either too difficult to answer or is perceived to be retorical. --bill
On Wed, 2003-02-05 at 22:12, bmanning@karoshi.com wrote:
bmanning@karoshi.com wrote:
I'm still waiting.
I'm not worried about the existance of a purported legal entity that appears to be hosting a mailing list. The question I ask, and am still waiting for an answer to is;
what are the differences (charter) between the European Operator Forum (eof) and the nasent EuroNOG?
Young Nich. has failed to respond. I guess the question is either too difficult to answer or is perceived to be retorical.
1/ Quick presentation 1.1/ RIPE EOF RIPE EOF is a working group inside RIPE. http://www.ripe.net/ripe/wg/eof/ Charter: The European Operators Forum deals with the operational issues of networks in Europe, such as new backbones and Internet Exchange Points. Mailing-list: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail-archives/eof-list/index.html 70 messages in 2002. EOF meeting during RIPE meeting. 1.2/ EuroNOG EuroNOG is a community. http://www.euronog.org/ Charter: - EuroNOG is a place for exchange technical information related to security, engineering and operation of the european Internet. - EuroNOG is not a legal entity. There is no formal membership or organisation, and no fees. Subscription to the mailing-list constitutes "membership" of EuroNOG. - EuroNOG is not a place for political and commercial discussions of any kind. - EuroNOG is aimed at european technical engineers and experts, but it is open to anyone interested in furthering the EuroNOG goals. - The working language is english. Mailing-list: http://www.mail-archive.com/euronog@ml.euronog.org/ 42 messages in 4 days. EuroNOG is a neutral community with about the same goals as Nanog for european people. If you want subscribe to the mailing-list: euronog-subscribe@ml.euronog.org. 2/ Differences beetween RIPE EOF and EuroNOG RIPE EOF is not neutral and depend of RIPE. EuroNOG is neutral and don't depend of any organization. RIPE EOF don't claim to be a neutral community with about the same goals as Nanog for european people. EuroNOG claim to be a neutral community with about the same goals as Nanog for european people. RIPE EOF is a working group inside a organization. EuroNOG is not a working group inside a organization. EuroNOG is open and make easier creation of working groups, on request DDoS tracking WG have been created. RIPE EOF don't have a lof of activity. EuroNOG is active. EuroNOG offer many ressources to network operators, any contributions (tools, documents,...) is welcome. -- Nicolas DEFFAYET, NDSoftware
Nicolas,
2/ Differences beetween RIPE EOF and EuroNOG
RIPE EOF is not neutral and depend of RIPE. EuroNOG is neutral and don't depend of any organization.
RIPE is a neutral and independent organization, so any of its working groups are by definition also neutral and independent.
EuroNOG is open and make easier creation of working groups, on request DDoS tracking WG have been created.
Easier than what? To start a WG in RIPE, all that is required is one email to the organization to ask for a room for a BoF.
RIPE EOF don't have a lof of activity. EuroNOG is active.
Define active. RIPE EOF has been meeting 3 times a year for at least the last 6 years, with a room full of people showing up for every meeting. Henk (speaking for himself). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal@ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre WWW: http://www.ripe.net/home/henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ That problem that we weren't having yesterday, is it better? (Big ISP NOC)
On 7 Feb 2003, Nicolas DEFFAYET wrote:
http://www.mail-archive.com/euronog@ml.euronog.org/ 42 messages in 4 days.
Where all messages are CC:'s from other active mailinglists. You seem to have no or little subscribers. (and please, stop coming up with your fantasy-friends who exist only in you imagination). -- Sabri Berisha www.cluecentral.net "I route, therefore you are"
instead of spending our time and energy putting down fools, let us try to be constructive. let's put our money where our mouths are. i am soliciting presentations for the eof meeting in barcelona. of particular interest a presentations on operationally oriented research, heretofor little-presented operational best practices, new and useful technologies, etc. please send abstracts to me and i will stuff them into some sort of program committee. randy
Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: [lots of cool stuff here]
4) ND software is incorporated in Jersey, Monaco, Virgin Islands or the Bahamas, not in France
I'd like the bahamas... would be a great first meeting :) -- Timo Mohre / Network Engineer / Tiscali Germany Business Division / Robert-Bosch-Strasse 32 / D-63303 Dreieich Fon: +49(0)6103-916 930 / Fax: +49(0)6103-916 099 www.tiscali.de / www.tiscali-business.de / timo.mohre@de.tiscali.com
On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 04:52:57PM -0800, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:
how/why is this proposed group distinct from the European Operator Forum?
Do you have a URL for the above forum? google isn't returning anything useful. -- Subhi S Hashwa *** subhi@thebigboss.com --- When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.
On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Subhi S Hashwa wrote:
On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 04:52:57PM -0800, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:
how/why is this proposed group distinct from the European Operator Forum?
Do you have a URL for the above forum? google isn't returning anything useful.
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/wg/eof/index.html Meetings are usually organized on the Monday/Tuesday of the RIPE meetings. Over the last years, focus shifted from technical presentations to advanced tutorials, though there are plans to reverse that. Next session will be May 12-13 in Barcelona, Spain. Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal@ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre WWW: http://www.ripe.net/home/henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ That problem that we weren't having yesterday, is it better? (Big ISP NOC)
On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 04:52:57PM -0800, bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:
how/why is this proposed group distinct from the European Operator Forum?
Do you have a URL for the above forum? google isn't returning anything useful.
Subhi S Hashwa *** subhi@thebigboss.com ---
Check www.ripe.net, go to meetings and look at agendas/minutes --bill
Do you have a URL for the above forum? google isn't returning anything useful.
http://www.ripe.net/ but don't worry you aren't missing much [anything?] -- Neil J. McRae - Alive and Kicking neil@DOMINO.ORG
participants (12)
-
Bill Woodcock -
bmanning＠karoshi.com -
bmanning＠vacation.karoshi.com -
Erik-Jan Bos -
Henk Uijterwaal (RIPE-NCC) -
neil＠DOMINO.ORG -
Nicolas DEFFAYET -
Randy Bush -
Sabri Berisha -
Stephane Bortzmeyer -
Subhi S Hashwa -
Timo Mohre