On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Joshua Smith wrote:

they could probably make some good money if they also charged for 'leaky' networks - however, i think the sentiment amongst their customers would not be favorable (you charge for misconfigurations? some nerve you have) it is probably one of those long term goals that you will almost never be able to convince the powers-that-be of undertaking.

but i do pay for mistakes i make in other industries -- i pay for late credit card payments and for parking where i should not. and these fines keep me on my feet, and i try to blunder less often. why are running networks different? whats the incentive today to not make mistakes while running a network, especially mistakes those that don't hurt yourself much? there is only some amount of social pressure i think. wouldn't configuration errors go down if providers/peers were to charge less for well-managed networks, or charge more for poorly managed networks? convincing customers just might be a matter of saying the right things. for instance, "our services cost $Z in general, but if we find that you manage your network well (some quantification), you pay only $Z-z (and optionally, if you manage it very poorly, you pay $Z+z')." -- ratul ps: since i don't run networks myself, all of this may be something that is obviously asinine. would be great if someone was to point out if that is the case, and why.

Ratul Mahajan <ratul@cs.washington.edu> wrote:

...

i have related question to ron's (a bit hypothetical but interesting nonetheless).

if isps charged for bgp announcements, would the number of announcements that shouldn't be made (e.g., those due to configuration errors and poor operational practices) go down?

-- ratul

they could probably make some good money if they also charged for 'leaky' networks - however, i think the sentiment amongst their customers would not be favorable (you charge for misconfigurations? some nerve you have) it is probably one of those long term goals that you will almost never be able to convince the powers-that-be of undertaking. i know i am having a very difficult time convincing management that our network needs some help - although after several recent, fairly successful attacks, they are starting to listen.

joshua

...

--------------

On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Ron da Silva wrote:

...

Some ISPs charge for actual bits carried (peak usage, actual count, whatever) in addition to or instead of per port/circuit charges.

Do any ISPs charge based on the number of announcements a customer advertises?

If downstream advertisements became mainly smaller prefixes (say /24) that were not aggregatable by you as their upstream ISP, would you answer the above question differently?

-ron

"Walk with me through the Universe, And along the way see how all of us are Connected. Feast the eyes of your Soul, On the Love that abounds. In all places at once, seemingly endless, Like your own existence." - Stephen Hawking -