you're gonna love this one. i have a piece of equipment i will be shipping to china that i want to test before i ship it over. it has a <gasp!> electric motor! so i need some kind of transformer/inverter setup that plugs into red blooded american 115v/60hz and can handle Power requirement: 1.5 kW Voltage requirement: 220 V Frequency: 50/60 Hz Current requirement: 10 A Current protection by user: 16 A (slow blow) Protection type: IP 54 Processor: C167, 20 MHz Spindle motor power: AC 380 Watts Brake: Electro-dynamic & mechanical any clues? thanks. randy
a step-up-down transformer should work fine, if slightly less elegantly than a switching rectifier... you just need one sized to the load, that's probably about 30 pounds of pig-iron... http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=790700&item=TC-2000&type=store http://www.allelectronics.com/pdf/transformers.pdf On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Randy Bush wrote:
you're gonna love this one.
i have a piece of equipment i will be shipping to china that i want to test before i ship it over. it has a <gasp!> electric motor! so i need some kind of transformer/inverter setup that plugs into red blooded american 115v/60hz and can handle
Power requirement: 1.5 kW Voltage requirement: 220 V Frequency: 50/60 Hz Current requirement: 10 A Current protection by user: 16 A (slow blow) Protection type: IP 54 Processor: C167, 20 MHz Spindle motor power: AC 380 Watts Brake: Electro-dynamic & mechanical
any clues? thanks.
randy
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu Academic User Services consult@gladstone.uoregon.edu PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
Randy, Your desktop computer (and most others) have electric motors. No need to be surprised or <gasp!> fearful. ;) If you have an electric dryer, stove, or AC unit, then you more than likely have the necessary components already. What?, you are at the office! Even better, Workmans Comp will cover your upcoming hospital visit. What you *will* need is a good buddy w/ a baseball bat to stand nearby and knock you off the current should you get electrocuted, but don't worry about that, it rarely happens. <evil smirk> Take said motor out of box, I presume that it has some attached wires, if not find an old power cord and improvise. Next, plug said wires into the 220v stove/dryer/AC outlet and let the sparks fly. <hypothetically, of course> Remember, rubber gloves (not the dish washing or condom type) are fashionable for exercises like this. Alternatively (if you are a wus, *cough*, *cough*) you could just call a local electrician. ;) -Jim P. --- Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
you're gonna love this one.
i have a piece of equipment i will be shipping to china that i want to test before i ship it over. it has a <gasp!> electric motor! so i need some kind of transformer/inverter setup that plugs into red blooded american 115v/60hz and can handle
Power requirement: 1.5 kW Voltage requirement: 220 V Frequency: 50/60 Hz Current requirement: 10 A Current protection by user: 16 A (slow blow) Protection type: IP 54 Processor: C167, 20 MHz Spindle motor power: AC 380 Watts Brake: Electro-dynamic & mechanical
any clues? thanks.
randy
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On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 12:35:43PM -0700, Jim Popovitch wrote:
Even better, Workmans Comp will cover your upcoming hospital visit. What you *will* need is a good buddy w/ a baseball bat to stand nearby and knock you off the current should you get electrocuted, but don't worry about that, it rarely happens. <evil smirk>
speaking of power conversions, here's a couple pics from my travels: power bar and northamerican plug adapter provided by a 4 star hotel in Karachi, Pakistan: http://www.reptiles.org/~jim/pics/2001-02-11/Image21.html (in order to use this, i was instructed to insert the bare wires into the socket holes in the wall. i did so, and it did work, sorta, it crackled once in a while, i was clued enough to unplug it when i wasn't using it). power bar, in production, Tehran, Iran http://www.reptiles.org/~jim/iran/work/Image22.jpg now, all that aside, these places do have "quality" products, such as this rackmount power strip i found in Dubai, UAE: http://www.reptiles.org/~jim/pics/2001-07-04/Image02.html and at the hardware store they had "normal" power strips, although i still find the non-north-american power plugs to be quite large and potentially dangerous. -- [ Jim Mercer jim@reptiles.org +1 416 410-5633 ] [ Now with more and longer words for your reading enjoyment. ]
On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Randy Bush wrote:
you're gonna love this one.
i have a piece of equipment i will be shipping to china that i want to test before i ship it over. it has a <gasp!> electric motor! so i need some kind of transformer/inverter setup that plugs into red blooded american 115v/60hz and can handle
Power requirement: 1.5 kW Voltage requirement: 220 V Frequency: 50/60 Hz Current requirement: 10 A Current protection by user: 16 A (slow blow) Protection type: IP 54 Processor: C167, 20 MHz Spindle motor power: AC 380 Watts Brake: Electro-dynamic & mechanical
any clues? thanks.
randy
Randy, Depending on your local power company, and your power feed, you may very well have 208VAC 60Hz phase-to-phase. It's pretty easy to check. --- John Fraizer EnterZone, Inc
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 12:12:25PM -0700, Randy Bush wrote:
you're gonna love this one.
i have a piece of equipment i will be shipping to china that i want to test before i ship it over. it has a <gasp!> electric motor! so i need some kind of transformer/inverter setup that plugs into red blooded american 115v/60hz and can handle
any clues? thanks.
here in toronto we have a place called "House of 220", where you can rent such a gizmo. i'm sure there are similar places in other larger urban centers in north america. -- [ Jim Mercer jim@reptiles.org +1 416 410-5633 ] [ Now with more and longer words for your reading enjoyment. ]
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Randy Bush said:
you're gonna love this one.
i have a piece of equipment i will be shipping to china that i want to test before i ship it over. it has a <gasp!> electric motor! so i need some kind of transformer/inverter setup that plugs into red blooded american 115v/60hz and can handle
Power requirement: 1.5 kW Voltage requirement: 220 V Frequency: 50/60 Hz Current requirement: 10 A Current protection by user: 16 A (slow blow) Protection type: IP 54 Processor: C167, 20 MHz Spindle motor power: AC 380 Watts Brake: Electro-dynamic & mechanical
If you want to test it on 50 Hz, you have a real issue. You can not easily generate that much; there is no easy way to morph 60 into same. Such will make a real difference in motor speed (duh!) unless it's really crude (electric drill/hair drier motor w/ brushes) or exotic (chopper controlled with feedback regulation, etc..) You might be able to rent/find a 5-10 KW gas generator and slow it down to make 50; it may or may not still make 220, but that's a little easier to handle, find a Variac. You want a bigger one because its efficiency will fall off. There ARE test sets that generate 50HZ from 60 (actually, 60->DC->50) but offhand I do not know where you'd find one. Maybe a major exporter of toys (LockNortGrumMart or such) would have one they use. Or hit all the equipment rental outfits. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
In article <200109052323.TAA05944@sigma.nrk.com>, David Lesher <wb8foz@nrk.com> wrote:
Unnamed Administration sources reported that Randy Bush said:
i have a piece of equipment i will be shipping to china that i want to test before i ship it over. it has a <gasp!> electric motor! so i need some kind of transformer/inverter setup that plugs into red blooded american 115v/60hz and can handle
If you want to test it on 50 Hz, you have a real issue. You can not easily generate that much; there is no easy way to morph 60 into same.
There ARE test sets that generate 50HZ from 60 (actually, 60->DC->50) but offhand I do not know where you'd find one.
Find a no-break UPS that can handle both 115/230 in and outputs 230 Mike. -- "Answering above the the original message is called top posting. Sometimes also called the Jeopardy style. Usenet is Q & A not A & Q." -- Bob Gootee
Randy, --On Wednesday, 05 September, 2001 7:23 PM -0400 David Lesher <wb8foz@nrk.com> wrote:
If you want to test it on 50 Hz, you have a real issue. You can not easily generate that much; there is no easy way to morph 60 into same.
Some UPS-like equipment will do this - stuff designed for running computer equipment in a field in the middle of nowhere, normally for pseudo military use; take any Generator input (which can be 30Hz-70Hz), any input voltage, normally close to sawtooth or triangle wave and covered with crap and artefacts, turn it into DC, put it into a few lead-acid batteries, and then work with the back-end of a conventional UPS. I've been trying to think of where I saw this (other than close to a landrover) without success; I suspect that the easiest place to find one that produces 220V @ 50Hz will be in Europe. I'm sure they'll work just fine off 110V @ 60Hz input - they'll think it's the cleanest and best power source they've yet seen. You might find a US model with switchable output (both voltage and frequency). Many true online UPS's do not much care (i.e. can be configured not to much care) about input frequency, as they rectify the supply anyway - in general the reason they look is that decreasing frequency means your generator is slowing down which is not a good sign. So failing that, you could try a normal European on-line UPS, with an input step-up transformer, with a wide frequency tolerance. The only problem you may run into is that some boxes are too clever by half, and autosense input frequency to determine output frequency. Alex Bligh Personal Capacity
Depending on how much power you want (joined this thread late) you could just use a standard inverter and a power pack. A power pack will produce a 12V or 24V DC source for you and an inverter designed to supply 220V 50Hz from a car battery can be made to take it's DC input from that instead. A quick web search for "inverter" "50Hz" throws up 210V, 220V, 230V and 240V inverters pretty easily. Then you can work out the power source, car batteries, power pack, DC power rails or some combination. (Australia is 240V 50Hz on the east coast, and I think it's still 250V 50Hz on the west coast, it used to be 260V and in some sites [eg, BankWest tower upper floors on weekends, ie, where the microwave gear for the academic network is located] I've seen up to 270V.) David, hoping all his equipment which claims to be 110V-240V supports the US voltages and frequencies next week :-)) -- David Luyer Phone: +61 3 9674 7525 Engineering Projects Manager P A C I F I C Fax: +61 3 9699 8693 Pacific Internet (Australia) I N T E R N E T Mobile: +61 4 1111 2983 http://www.pacific.net.au/ NASDAQ: PCNTF
[straying well from the topic here, but ...] At 07:40 PM 6/09/2001 +1000, David Luyer wrote:
(Australia is 240V 50Hz on the east coast, and I think it's still 250V 50Hz on the west coast, it used to be 260V and in some sites [eg, BankWest tower upper floors on weekends, ie, where the microwave gear for the academic network is located] I've seen up to 270V.)
the tolerance is typically +/- 10%, so it isn't uncommon to see anything between 216-264V and HZ +/- 1%. the +/- range on voltage is also what makes it 'easier' for power-supply makers (at least if the design isn't dependent on HZ). this is why you typically see multi-range power-supplies state "115V or 230V". HZ moving around causes far more problems -- makes peoples clocks go slow and fast. for that reason, HZ is very tightly regulated - if it goes over for a period, they'll make it go under to even it out. cheers, lincoln. NB. that is simply WA power and the fact that it is somewhat hard to regulate supply to demand when you've got an isolated grid.
On Thu, 6 Sep 2001, Lincoln Dale wrote:
HZ moving around causes far more problems -- makes peoples clocks go slow and fast. for that reason, HZ is very tightly regulated - if it goes over for a period, they'll make it go under to even it out.
Sorry for the nit-picking... Grid AC frequency is tightly controlled for entirely different reason - imagine what happens when you have two generators on the same grid, out of phase from each other. (In really large grids, like ex-USSR's United Energy System wave propagation delays make the whole synchronization dance quite interesting, particularly considering that turbines start rotating faster if load drops, etc). There other, as imprtant, reasons to keep frequency stable: for example, phase difference determines the direction of energy flow in an inter-tie transmission line! (see, for example, analysis of coupled oscillators in Feynman's lectures on physics). And there's a whole can of worms in keeping right the angle between voltage and current :) Actually, a lot of what grid control automatics people do could be a very well worth to learn for the network people. Grid control requires very fast redistribution of the load to keep parts of grid in sync; miss the time window, and you have to live in panic mode, effectively shutting down and patritioning grid to protect equipment against cascading effects. That forced automation designers to go into a lot of very heavy trickery, like pre-computing failure modes, and then quickly selecting the right scenario. Of course, no in-line signalling foolishness there :) --vadim
-- David Lesher <wb8foz@nrk.com> wrote:
If you want to test it on 50 Hz, you have a real issue. You can not easily generate that much; there is no easy way to morph 60 into same.
and boy was he right. (apologies to many for not re-emphasizing the subject: line in the message text, 50Hz is the goal)
Some UPS-like equipment will do this - stuff designed for running computer equipment in a field in the middle of nowhere, normally for pseudo military use; take any Generator input (which can be 30Hz-70Hz), any input voltage, normally close to sawtooth or triangle wave and covered with crap and artefacts, turn it into DC, put it into a few lead-acid batteries, and then work with the back-end of a conventional UPS.
yup, that seems to be the general approach. i have leads on a 220/50 ups of this type, and plan to feed it 220/60. but, as you say, feeding it 110/60 might work. randy
At 12:12 PM 5/09/2001 -0700, Randy Bush wrote:
you're gonna love this one.
i have a piece of equipment i will be shipping to china that i want to test before i ship it over. it has a <gasp!> electric motor! so i need some kind of transformer/inverter setup that plugs into red blooded american 115v/60hz and can handle
Power requirement: 1.5 kW Voltage requirement: 220 V Frequency: 50/60 Hz Current requirement: 10 A
there's at least 4 ways to do it: [1] its easy enough in Australia to get '240V/50Hz -> 110V/60Hz' transformers. i would imagine you could probably find the same thing in USA without too much difficulty. [2] on this side of the planet, its pretty easy to get hold of small portable diesel generators that can output 1500W @ 240V. [3] there's certainly inverters that'll convert -48DC to 240V/50Hz. a couple of car batteries or your favourite telco DC rail would do nicely. [4] besides USA and Japan, just about everywhere else in the world uses 240V AC. sounds like an excuse for a European or Australian holiday to me ... cheers, lincoln.
I've got it.... Bundle it up & take it along on a trip to the the Caribbean. You'll find that most ex-British colonies will still be 50hz. Also a few others, such as Curacao. Note that due to {flip, flip, flip, hmm...} bad water, you'll need to take it easy there & only work an hour or two a day. While recuperating, note that Curacao is the home to a Amstel brewery (they have to distill all the water for it...) and has many beaches with visiting Dutch women so economically challenged that they can't always afford swimsuits. Good luck, and I hope you have a successful test. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
participants (11)
-
Alex Bligh -
David Lesher -
David Luyer -
Jim Mercer -
Jim Popovitch -
Joel Jaeggli -
John Fraizer -
Lincoln Dale -
miquels＠cistron-office.nl -
Randy Bush -
Vadim Antonov