Bay Networks in bed with commie censors?
THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION. IT SHOULD NOT BE INTERPRETED AS A POSITION OR A STATEMENT OF MY EMPLOYER. Ok, it looks like Bay Networks made a sweet deal with Chinese commies. Essentially, they will provide technology for the state propaganda network and censored Internet. Their "partnership" with censors of a communist regime is repugnant. Using the modern technology to build a giant brainwashing machine is very scary. Some companies will do anything for a buck, though. How about boycotting their products in U.S. and other democratic countries? --vadim Chinese intranet to launch in February January 15, 1997 Web posted at: 12:40 a.m. EST HONG KONG (Reuter) -- Bay Networks Inc. and the China Internet Corp., controlled by Beijing's state news agency, have formed a partnership to create a nationwide intranet in China, the companies said Tuesday. The companies declined to disclose the value of the deal that will establish a network covering more than 50 cities, 20 of them by the end of 1997. An intranet is an internal network that uses Internet global computer network technology. Access in and out of the intranet is possible -- intranets can be linked to the Internet proper -- but access can be controlled. The first phase connecting Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing and the southern city of Guangzhou is to be launched next month, offering tailored information mostly in Chinese to government entities, joint ventures and corporations in China. Copyright 1997 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Vadim Antonov wrote:
Their "partnership" with censors of a communist regime is repugnant. Using the modern technology to build a giant brainwashing machine is very scary.
Since you are a person that saw up-front and close the democratizing effects of a telecommunications network on the democratization of a communist country, I find this a rather surprising statement. The network will let more Chinese citizens communicate with each other than ever before. And I strongly expect that there will be dozens of gateways between this "intranet" and China's Internet providers. You, of all people, should realize that withholding commnications technology sterngthens and isolates communist regimes. But hooking them into the global capitalist economy at the state level will eventually pay dividends by creating a bourgeois class (the educated middle class) which will force democratization to occur. Not everybody follows the U.S. model of democracy, for instance Canada does not. But that doesn't mean we aren't free and it doesn't mean we aren't happy. Have you changed from a Soviet imperialist into an American imperialist? Don't you realize that parallelism can be exploited in politics as well as in routing? Create millions of small opportunities for Chinese people to share information and they will do the rest. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com
Vadim Antonov writes...
[...]
Some companies will do anything for a buck, though.
How about boycotting their products in U.S. and other democratic countries?
So if a bunch of Commies came over to your office with a dump truck full of money and said, "So comrade, we need IP networks that are the fastest they can possibly be. If we dump this in your lobby will you help us?" You'd say no? What if they just bought a bunch of Cisco routers on the open market without any special deal? Should Cisco turn that money away? -- Matt Ranney - mjr@ranney.com This is how I sign all my messages.
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Matt Ranney wrote:
So if a bunch of Commies came over to your office with a dump truck full of money and said, "So comrade, we need IP networks that are the fastest they can possibly be. If we dump this in your lobby will you help us?"
If I owned a gun store, I wouldn't sell a gun to someone who I thought would use it to murder someone no matter how much money he offered. Would you? No one needs the money or the business that badly. DS
David,
David Schwartz writes :
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Matt Ranney wrote:
So if a bunch of Commies came over to your office with a dump truck full of money and said, "So comrade, we need IP networks that are the fastest they can possibly be. If we dump this in your lobby will you help us?"
If I owned a gun store, I wouldn't sell a gun to someone who I thought would use it to murder someone no matter how much money he offered. Would you? No one needs the money or the business that badly.
This exactly why there are no gun stores anymore in most civil countries ;-). David K. ---
David Schwartz writes...
If I owned a gun store, I wouldn't sell a gun to someone who I thought would use it to murder someone no matter how much money he offered. Would you? No one needs the money or the business that badly.
Obviously not. We are talking about routers here. They forward packets, and sometimes they are configured not to forward packets. Schools in the good ole U S of A deny certain packets, as do most companies. Would you rather China had no routers at all? Perhaps you and Vadim should get Bob Metcalfe to write an article about this new network, then China's Internet will be on the verge of collapse even before it starts. -- Matt Ranney - mjr@ranney.com This is how I sign all my messages.
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997 15:05:56 -0800, avg@pluris.com writes:
THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION. IT SHOULD NOT BE INTERPRETED AS A POSITION OR A STATEMENT OF MY EMPLOYER.
Ok, it looks like Bay Networks made a sweet deal with Chinese commies. Essentially, they will provide technology for the state propaganda network and censored Internet.
Their "partnership" with censors of a communist regime is repugnant. Using the modern technology to build a giant brainwashing machine is very scary.
Some companies will do anything for a buck, though.
How about boycotting their products in U.S. and other democratic countries?
YEAH! YEAH! That'll teach em! Don't sell to a customer because of what they do with the network. I guess I should stop selling routers to certain schools because they filter Usenet groups. CENSORSHIP! And you know, the US Military buys a lot of Bay switches and Cisco routers, so I guess we should boycott both vendors because they use weapons of mass destruction. And I heard Cabletron has a deal with the Devil. Here, let me buy you a clue. -Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------- * Jon Green * * * jcgreen@netINS.net * This space for rent pending * * Finger for Geek Code/PGP * me thinking up a witty quote. * * #include "std_disclaimer.h" * * -------------------------------------------------------------------------
YEAH! YEAH! That'll teach em! Don't sell to a customer because of what they do with the network. I guess I should stop selling routers to certain schools because they filter Usenet groups. CENSORSHIP! And you know, the US Military buys a lot of Bay switches and Cisco routers, so I guess we should boycott both vendors because they use weapons of mass destruction. And I heard Cabletron has a deal with the Devil.
Here, let me buy you a clue.
-Jon
Well, AS 666 is owned by the ARMY Weapons Systems Test Center. Owen
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Vadim Antonov wrote: :Their "partnership" with censors of a communist regime :is repugnant. Using the modern technology to build a :giant brainwashing machine is very scary. How so ? Communications is actually loosening communism as it was in China. Fax machines have helped, and anything that facilitates the exchange of ideas will only make China bend closer to a 'democracy standard'. If you see how China has changed from 10 years ago to now (some form of capitalism), you will see that they cannot and will not run the country as communism was once run. : :Some companies will do anything for a buck, though. : I don't think this has anything to do with commercialism. Are you implying that Cisco and/or other US firms would turn this deal down (and or not pursue it?). :How about boycotting their products in U.S. and other :democratic countries? Should we also boycott Coke, McDonalds, KFC, McDonald Douglas, etc ? Since they all profit from the people of a 'communist' country that does not endorse the same personal freedoms that we do. Ed : Chinese intranet to launch in February : : January 15, 1997 : Web posted at: 12:40 a.m. EST : : HONG KONG (Reuter) -- Bay Networks Inc. and the China Internet : Corp., controlled by Beijing's state news agency, have formed a : partnership to create a nationwide intranet in China, the companies : said Tuesday. : : The companies declined to disclose the value of the deal that will : establish a network covering more than 50 cities, 20 of them by the : end of 1997. An intranet is an internal network that uses Internet : global computer network technology. : : Access in and out of the intranet is possible -- intranets can be linked : to the Internet proper -- but access can be controlled. : : The first phase connecting Hong Kong, Shanghai, Beijing and the : southern city of Guangzhou is to be launched next month, offering : tailored information mostly in Chinese to government entities, joint : ventures and corporations in China. : : Copyright 1997 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. :
How about boycotting [Bay] products in U.S. and other democratic countries?
Heck, don't most of us boycott them anyway? But I'd rather do it for other reasons having more to do with disliking their products/direction. ;-) ---- Kirby Files Network Engineer BBN PlaNET Corp kfiles@bbnplanet.com
participants (10)
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David Schwartz -
davidk＠ISI.EDU -
Edward Fang -
Jon Green -
Kirby Files -
Matt Ranney -
Matt Ranney -
Michael Dillon -
owen＠DeLong.SJ.CA.US -
Vadim Antonov