Yes, in the common parlance, they're referred to as the 'root' servers. Most technical people, including myself (unless we're being pedantic) refer to them in the same way. ----------------------------------------------------------- Roland Dobbins <rdobbins@netmore.net> // 818.535.5024 voice -----Original Message----- From: Nathan Lane [mailto:nathan@terminus.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 5:36 PM Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Root zone change -- d.gtld-servers.net Randy Bush wrote:
indeed! but these date are not about root nameservers.
randy
Indeed they ARE "root level" (i.e., the ones that have high visibility) servers to any non technical corporate management. I applaud the effort by the team at Network Solutions to keep us informed of changes and outages, even those not under their direct control. Without DNS, this space doesn't work for 99.9% of the population. -Nathan Lane Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.
Yes, in the common parlance, they're referred to as the 'root' servers. Most technical people, including myself (unless we're being pedantic) refer to them in the same way.
before eating dinner, you may want to remove your foot from your mouth. but i am sure nsi's marketing departments appreciates your misunderstanding of the dns. randy
[ On Tuesday, September 19, 2000 at 18:58:21 (-0700), rdobbins@netmore.net wrote: ]
Subject: RE: Root zone change -- d.gtld-servers.net
Yes, in the common parlance, they're referred to as the 'root' servers. Most technical people, including myself (unless we're being pedantic) refer to them in the same way.
It would appear that at least some technical people need to learn to mind their p's and q's a with a little more care and attention! There is, and can ony be, one ``root'' in the DNS. Everything else is a subdomain. Just because once upon a time the root nameservers and the most common Top-Level-Domain nameservers were one in the same doesn't mean you can freely refer to the TLD servers as "root" servers! -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP <gwoods@acm.org> <robohack!woods> Planix, Inc. <woods@planix.com>; Secrets of the Weird <woods@weird.com>
[ not disagreeing greg, just using your post as a soapbox ]
Just because once upon a time the root nameservers and the most common Top-Level-Domain nameservers were one in the same doesn't mean you can freely refer to the TLD servers as "root" servers! \\\ a handful out of hundreds of
should iana post to this list every time they change servers for TZ, KE, UG, CA, MX, ...? it would be easy to do if people are really interested in this stuff at that level of detail. it is quite likely that french operators care a lot more about FR than COM. and remember that canada, mexico, and other places think that they're part of north america. though i suspect they may wistfully regret having a bully in the neighborhood. and let's not forget to cover servers for the extremely popular sites, e.g. aol.com, nasa.gov, ... it is amusing that members of this list, who so often spend inordinate amounts of time railing against nsi, fall so simply for their "we have the most important zones" marketing. then again, i am repeatedly told by my european, alyc, african, ap, ... friends that the whole domain name noise is an american problem/disease and we should shut up and use the US tld. interesting that nsi could be on the grab for that one too. randy
Randy Bush wrote:
[ not disagreeing greg, just using your post as a soapbox ]
it is amusing that members of this list, who so often spend inordinate amounts of time railing against nsi, fall so simply for their "we have the most important zones" marketing. then again, i am repeatedly told by my european, alyc, african, ap, ... friends that the whole domain name noise is an american problem/disease and we should shut up and use the US tld. interesting that nsi could be on the grab for that one too.
randy
[Soapbox on] I have heard this "market speak" and these battles are difficult to fight, IMHO. They are all spreading FUD, making middle managers wonder if Tuvalu is the best domain space since toasters. Recently, my team was able to start the process to decom 6000 gtld names. The moment our counsel hears of someone reclaims one of those, there will be hell to pay. As for US, Manning setup the only sane structure but it met with great disdain for some reason unknown to me. Too many dots is all I hear. Now it goes to the DOC and all those other three letters. Quite a loss to the community. [Soapbox off] -Nathan Lane
Nathan Lane wrote:
As for US, Manning setup the only sane structure but it met with great disdain for some reason unknown to me. Too many dots is all I hear.
The ironic thing is that even WITH all of those dots, there were a lot of .US 4th/5th-level domains that are SHORTER, in total length, then second-level .coms, .nets and .orgs! -- North Shore Technologies, Cleveland, OH http://NorthShoreTechnologies.net Steve Sobol, BOFH - President, Chief Website Architect and Janitor Linux Instructor, PC/LAN Program, Natl. Institute of Technology, Akron, OH sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net - 888.480.4NET - 216.619.2NET
Nathan Lane wrote:
[Soapbox on]
I have heard this "market speak" and these battles are difficult to fight, IMHO. They are all spreading FUD, making middle managers wonder if Tuvalu is the best domain space since toasters. Recently, my team was able to start the process to decom 6000 gtld names. The moment our counsel hears of someone reclaims one of those, there will be hell to pay.
As for US, Manning setup the only sane structure but it met with great disdain for some reason unknown to me. Too many dots is all I hear. Now it goes to the DOC and all those other three letters. Quite a loss to the community.
[Soapbox off]
-Nathan Lane
When I last looked into getting a domain in our state.us domain, I heard bad things about the registrar, and the fees, and the lack of transparency. It isn't just the dots - it would have really helped to have set up a truly competitive registration system for the entire .us space. Maybe it has changed by now... Regards Marshall Eubanks T.M. Eubanks Multicast Technologies, Inc. e-mail : tme@on-the-i.com http://www.on-the-i.com http://www.buzzwaves.com
As for US, Manning setup the only sane structure but it met with great disdain for some reason unknown to me. Too many dots is all I hear. Now it goes to the DOC and all those other three letters. Quite a loss to the community.
-Nathan Lane
POC (point of clarification) - I'm not sure which Manning you are refering to but being a bit hypersensitive here, I'd like to inject an alternative view. Jon Postel, Anne Cooper, and Steve Hotz are (I believe) are the culprits behind the US. domain. I touched it briefly on two occasions, once to check a capability (yes, the following domain label did exist: zz.yy.xx.ww.vv.uu.tt.ss.rr.qq.pp.oo.nn.mm.ll.kk.jj.ii.hh.gg.ff.ee.dd.cc.bb.aa.la.ca.us. :) and once to upgrade zones to add the cruft for bind 8. Lots more could be done to/for the US domain, IMHO its a shame that USC/ISI could/would not devote the resources to ensuring a quality product. One hopes for the best with the rebid. --bill
Randy Bush wrote:
[ not disagreeing greg, just using your post as a soapbox ]
Randy, grepping the nanog archive shows a number of posts over the last year bitching about lack of synchronization or currency of data regarding .com domains when checking against the various tld-servers and root-servers. Clearly there is interest amongst many of the subscribers (the North American Network Operators) on this list, hopefully now no longer pointing out lack of valid answers from Paul's machine. Some people may not use dig to identify the currently authoritative servers. so just let it go :-)
should iana post to this list every time they change servers for TZ, KE, UG, CA, MX, ...?
No. But it may be of interest on the respective regional lists if operators there have posted similar comments in the past.
we should shut up and use the US tld. interesting that nsi could be on the grab for that one too.
Rumor has it that the deed has already been done :-( -- Rodney Joffe CenterGate Research Group, LLC. http://www.centergate.com "Technology so advanced, even we don't understand it!"(SM)
[ On Tuesday, September 19, 2000 at 19:56:45 (-0700), Randy Bush wrote: ]
Subject: RE: Root zone change -- d.gtld-servers.net
should iana post to this list every time they change servers for TZ, KE, UG, CA, MX, ...?
It might be interesting to see what's in the works (i.e. to see such announcements well before they're committed to operational status) for top-level domains in particular (since screw ups at this level affect many domains). However I doubt this forum is the best for such posts. Though this analogy probably breaks down as soon as you look at it, I'd suggest that such posts are more akin to the old *.news.stats postings and perhaps a separate forum specifically for such announcements would be better. A central repository of such announcements would be nice too, but it's hard to beat the ability of a widely read list like this one to disseminate information in such a way that it's got some chance to be closest to those who might need it, and perhaps to even reach their attention before they even know they need it.
then again, i am repeatedly told by my european, alyc, african, ap, ... friends that the whole domain name noise is an american problem/disease and we should shut up and use the US tld.
Count at least some of us Canadians in on that side of the fence too! ;-) Down with .COM! :-) (not that .ca isn't going to be just as rabid as .com soon.... the people that decided that subdomain registration policies need to be geared primarily towards selling the most possible domains within a given jurisdiction are really getting a little too carried away with the wrong kind of business model!)
interesting that nsi could be on the grab for that one too.
hmmm.... -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP <gwoods@acm.org> <robohack!woods> Planix, Inc. <woods@planix.com>; Secrets of the Weird <woods@weird.com>
On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 07:56:45PM -0700, Randy Bush wrote:
operators care a lot more about FR than COM. and remember that canada, mexico, and other places think that they're part of north america. though i suspect they may wistfully regret having a bully in the neighborhood.
Yes, I'm sure Mexico's first thought when they're cashing that 1 billion in foreign aid we send them yearly is "what bullies these gringos are". And don't forget the 90 billion in products we buy from them every year, I'm sure that angers them too. Can we get back to discussing operational issues and leave the Ugly American stereotypes on /. where they belong?
participants (9)
-
bmanning＠vacation.karoshi.com -
Nathan Lane -
Randy Bush -
rdobbins＠netmore.net -
Rodney Joffe -
Shawn McMahon -
Steve Sobol -
Thomas Marshall Eubanks -
woods＠weird.com