New subject: NANOG Digest, Vol 33, Issue 91

20 Oct 2010

      We all are waiving flags about the return of one solitary /8 to ARIN, (which
is a good thing)  but should we not waive flags about new v6 networks too?

Let us waive the flags also for the v6 adopters...I think we need to
evangelize v6 even more than we are already doing.

RD
...
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:27:41 -0400
From: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: ARIN recognizes Interop for return of more than 99% of
       45/8    address block
To: Joel Esler <joel.esler@me.com>
Cc: John Curran <jcurran@arin.net>, "nanog@nanog.org"
       <nanog@nanog.org>
Message-ID:
       <AANLkTin4P826POmny_rNZvSZowkNih7zN1LMiFhAYQKN@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Joel Esler <joel.esler@me.com> wrote:
...
Now, if we could get everyone that has these gigantic /8's (or multiple
of them) that aren't using them to give some back, that'd be great.
it's nice that interop did a nice thing here, but seriously, this is
~3 months of usage... there is no saving the move to v6, the bottom's
going to fall out on or about june 2011 it seems.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:28:44 -0400
From: John Curran <jcurran@arin.net>
Subject: Re: ARIN recognizes Interop for return of more than 99% of
       45/8    address block
To: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>
Cc: "nanog@nanog.org Operators Group" <nanog@nanog.org>
Message-ID: <EBF47E07-EDC2-47F7-89EE-5D2165A741EF@arin.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Oct 20, 2010, at 11:26 AM, Christopher Morrow wrote:
...
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org> wrote:
...
Thank you Interop - for performing an outstanding act of altruism.
John, could you provide more details at this stage on how much address
space
was returned to ARIN?
less than 3 months supply at the going drain rate.
Not to be depressing, but a /8 (or 99% of one :-) is potentially less
than one month's drain on the global IPv4 free pool, if one considers
the allocations over the last 12 months to be predictive.
/John
John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:29:58 -0400
From: Curtis Maurand <cmaurand@xyonet.com>
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Metro-Ethernet Equipment
To: nanog@nanog.org
Message-ID: <4CBF0AF6.9030207@xyonet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I'd add Alcatel to that list.
On 10/20/2010 11:24 AM, Eric Merkel wrote:
...
I've been tasked with making a recommendation for the core and access
equipment for a small metro-ethernet network. We're probably talking at
max
200-300 subs split between two termination points. Most customers will
probably be at speeds of 100M or less. We'd like the backbone to be 10G
and
be MPLS capable. That being said some of the companies we've been looking
at
are
Cisco
Extreme
Brocade
Adtran
Occam
Zhone
We're looking to build the network in a cost effective manner so we're
not
opposed to doing using aftermarket or refurbished equipment but we don't
want to start off with equipment that has no future of expanding.
Any suggestions, success or horror stories are appreciated. ;)
Eric
=====
Eric Merkel
MetaLINK Technologies, Inc.
Email: merkel at metalink.net
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:33:01 -0400
From: John Curran <jcurran@arin.net>
Subject: Re: ARIN recognizes Interop for return of more than 99% of
       45/8    address block
To: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>
Cc: "nanog@nanog.org Operators Group" <nanog@nanog.org>
Message-ID: <BB969AF1-E6DC-4E71-B3D7-A56DABDEB24B@arin.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Oct 20, 2010, at 11:27 AM, Christopher Morrow wrote:
...
it's nice that interop did a nice thing here, but seriously, this is
~3 months of usage... there is no saving the move to v6, the bottom's
going to fall out on or about june 2011 it seems.
I agree with Chris; this (and any other returns) won't change the IPv4
depletion/IPv6 deployment timeline substantially, but it's also true
we have folks who are just now realizing IPv4 depletion is happening
and returned address space may make the difference for those who need
just a bit more time...
/John
John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:35:19 -0400
From: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: ARIN recognizes Interop for return of more than 99% of
       45/8    address block
To: John Curran <jcurran@arin.net>
Cc: "nanog@nanog.org Operators Group" <nanog@nanog.org>
Message-ID:
       <AANLkTimgWaS1Vk+WVeXDEkL8srCBE6wxEpLOaV8Ez1Hv@mail.gmail.com<AANLkTimgWaS1Vk%2BWVeXDEkL8srCBE6wxEpLOaV8Ez1Hv@mail.gmail.com>
...
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:28 AM, John Curran <jcurran@arin.net> wrote:
...
On Oct 20, 2010, at 11:26 AM, Christopher Morrow wrote:
...
...
less than 3 months supply at the going drain rate.
Not to be depressing, but a /8 (or 99% of one :-) is potentially less
than one month's drain on the global IPv4 free pool, if one considers
the allocations over the last 12 months to be predictive.
yes, sorry.. since this was returned to ARIN, I assumed the ARIN
region drain rate.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:37:55 -0400
From: John Curran <jcurran@arin.net>
Subject: Re: ARIN recognizes Interop for return of more than 99% of
       45/8    address block
To: Jeroen Massar <jeroen@unfix.org>
Cc: "nanog@nanog.org Operators Group" <nanog@nanog.org>
Message-ID: <CC71D159-C46E-49C7-9A8B-6A99508CCB89@arin.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Oct 20, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Jeroen Massar wrote:
...
The problem with that is indeed in that little part about "aren't using
them", if even only 50% is in use because one allocated it quite
sparsely you won't be able to quickly clean it up and return it.
Correct.  It might make sense to do so, if you could recover the costs of
the work involved.  This is the reasoning behind the Specified Transfer
policy that was recently adopted; it allows (once we're at depletion) for
parties to free up address space and get compensated.  It's goal is not to
provide a windfall for those holding unused space; in theory, those with
unused address space should be returning it already if they can easily do
so.
...
One can of course wonder if they are supposed to use that or not.
The fact that they do not have reverse DNS delegation for it says quite
a bit already of course.
One of the other benefits of improved utilization for returned space
is less space which is "sitting idle" and available to be hijacked.
/John
John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:40:57 -0400
From: John Curran <jcurran@arin.net>
Subject: Re: ARIN recognizes Interop for return of more than 99% of
       45/8    address block
To: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>
Cc: "nanog@nanog.org Operators Group" <nanog@nanog.org>
Message-ID: <DBBFDC71-10D2-45CE-86C5-08496337CD02@arin.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Oct 20, 2010, at 11:35 AM, Christopher Morrow wrote:
...
yes, sorry.. since this was returned to ARIN, I assumed the ARIN
region drain rate.
Ah, good point.  It may end up in the global pool, so comparison to
either drain rate is quite reasonable.
/John
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:45:20 -0400
From: Joe Maimon <jmaimon@ttec.com>
Subject: Re: ARIN recognizes Interop for return of more than 99% of
       45/8    address block
To: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>
Cc: John Curran <jcurran@arin.net>, "nanog@nanog.org"
       <nanog@nanog.org>
Message-ID: <4CBF0E90.6070403@ttec.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Christopher Morrow wrote:
...
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Nick Hilliard<nick@foobar.org>  wrote:
...
Thank you Interop - for performing an outstanding act of altruism.
John, could you provide more details at this stage on how much address
space
was returned to ARIN?
less than 3 months supply at the going drain rate.
So would it be more logical for all those willing to return do so only
after depletion when the impact and resulting appreciation is likely to
be greater?
Plus, those less altruistic could weigh the options better after real
value is associated with the scarce resource.
Joe
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:02:16 -0400
From: Francois Menard <francois@menards.ca>
Subject: Re: Recommendations for Metro-Ethernet Equipment
To: Curtis Maurand <cmaurand@xyonet.com>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Message-ID: <B861A05D-DB46-4E45-8818-A6C0C6356DB1@menards.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
We just bought a fair amount of MRV Optiswitches for that same purpose.
F.
On 2010-10-20, at 11:29 AM, Curtis Maurand wrote:
...
I'd add Alcatel to that list.
On 10/20/2010 11:24 AM, Eric Merkel wrote:
...
I've been tasked with making a recommendation for the core and access
equipment for a small metro-ethernet network. We're probably talking at
max
200-300 subs split between two termination points. Most customers will
probably be at speeds of 100M or less. We'd like the backbone to be 10G
and
be MPLS capable. That being said some of the companies we've been
looking at
are
Cisco
Extreme
Brocade
Adtran
Occam
Zhone
We're looking to build the network in a cost effective manner so we're
not
opposed to doing using aftermarket or refurbished equipment but we don't
want to start off with equipment that has no future of expanding.
Any suggestions, success or horror stories are appreciated. ;)
Eric
=====
Eric Merkel
MetaLINK Technologies, Inc.
Email: merkel at metalink.net
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:03:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Justin M. Streiner" <streiner@cluebyfour.org>
Subject: Re: ARIN recognizes Interop for return of more than 99% of
       45/8    address block
To: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.1010201154270.17786@whammy.cluebyfour.org>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On Wed, 20 Oct 2010, Joel Esler wrote:
...
Now, if we could get everyone that has these gigantic /8's (or multiple
of them) that aren't using them to give some back, that'd be great.
Thank you interop for setting the example.
Sure, it would be a nice gesture if MIT/HP/Ford/Xerox/Halliburton/etc gave
back the chunks of the /8s they weren't using, but it wouldn't
significantly affect when the IPv4 well runs dry.  Also, without knowing
how those organizations have used the space internally, such an
altruistic gesture could also come at the cost of having to de-aggregate
a bunch of advertisements in BGP.
The law of diminishing returns comes into play.
jms
...
On Oct 20, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Nick Hilliard wrote:
...
Thank you Interop - for performing an outstanding act of altruism.
John, could you provide more details at this stage on how much address
space was returned to ARIN?
Nick
...
FYI,
/John
----
https://www.arin.net/announcements/2010/20101020.html
Posted: Wednesday, 20 October 2010
ARIN today recognizes Interop, an organization with a long-standing
On 20/10/2010 14:34, John Curran wrote:
presence in the Internet industry, for returning its unneeded Internet
Protocol version 4 (IPv4) address space.
...
Interop was originally allocated a /8 before ARIN's existence and the
availability of smaller-sized address blocks. The organization recently
realized it was only using a small portion of its address block and that
returning the remainder to ARIN would be for the greater good of the
Internet community.
...
ARIN will accept the returned space and not reissue it for a short
period, per existing operational procedure. After the hold period, ARIN will
follow global policy at that time and return it to the global free pool or
distribute the space to those organizations in the ARIN region with
documented need, as appropriate.
...
With less than 5% of the IPv4 address space left in the global free
pool, ARIN warns that Interop's return will not significantly extend the
life of IPv4. ARIN continues to emphasize the need for all Internet
stakeholders to adopt the next generation of Internet Protocol, IPv6.
...
Regards,
Communications and Member Services
American Registry for Internet Numbers
--
Joel Esler
http://www.joelesler.net
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 12:04:29 -0400
From: Ernie Rubi <ernesto@cs.fiu.edu>
Subject: Re: ARIN recognizes Interop for return of more than 99% of
       45/8    address block
To: Joe Maimon <jmaimon@ttec.com>
Cc: John Curran <jcurran@arin.net>, "nanog@nanog.org"
       <nanog@nanog.org>
Message-ID: <107A762E-D0A0-4CBA-92D8-376FCD6E266B@cs.fiu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I don't think ARIN (or any other RIR) wants people to think this way.
Appreciation and value are words that most folks at ICANN don't want
network engineers to associate with IP addresses.
"The real value is in routing"; is the party line.
STLS to me is kind of double speak, ARIN says: "this isn't a capital
resource", but yet if you go through us and list your 'unused' blocks in
this space, we don't care what financial transaction happens behind the
scenes.
Maybe John can shed more light on this.
For some background, go over to the Internet-history mailing list, which
included a very lively discussion of "ownership interest" in IP addresses.
Ernie
On Oct 20, 2010, at 11:45 AM, Joe Maimon wrote:
...
So would it be more logical for all those willing to return do so only
after depletion when the impact and resulting appreciation is likely to be
greater?
...
Plus, those less altruistic could weigh the options better after real
value is associated with the scarce resource.
------------------------------
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End of NANOG Digest, Vol 33, Issue 91
*************************************
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Rudi Daniel
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Re: NANOG Digest, Vol 33, Issue 91

Rudolph Daniel

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