Multi-gigabit edge devices as CPE
I work at a state REN and we are seeking a lead for a new edge device for on prem deployment at customer sites. We currently deploy two classes of routers-- a high end and a low end. Both the high end and the low end use some of the standard edge features: MPLS-TE, MBGP, flowspec, vrf, PIM, etc. We deliver full tables over these devices to the customers that need them. We recently finished a new ethernet procurement and have a large number of sites (~200) moving from <1Gbps in bandwidth to 1-10Gb in bandwidth. Our currently deployed low-end router can't handle these speeds and we can't afford to place our high end router at 200+ sites. So, we're looking for a middle tier router to deploy. Something with 2+ SFP+ ports, software that can handle the aforementioned features, and something with an API that we can leverage for programmatic management. So far we've not found anything that checks all the boxes. Layer 3 switches seem like obvious choices, but lack some of the features and RIB/FIB we need at the edge. Other devices like the Juniper MX5/10 certainly meet the requirements, but are priced way beyond what we can afford. Any suggestions for devices we might have overlooked? Preferably in the less than 10K per unit price point. If such a magical device exists. -Dan
Cisco ASR902 or Juniper ACX.. On Apr 8, 2015 3:48 PM, "Daniel Rohan" <drohan@gmail.com> wrote:
I work at a state REN and we are seeking a lead for a new edge device for on prem deployment at customer sites.
We currently deploy two classes of routers-- a high end and a low end. Both the high end and the low end use some of the standard edge features: MPLS-TE, MBGP, flowspec, vrf, PIM, etc. We deliver full tables over these devices to the customers that need them.
We recently finished a new ethernet procurement and have a large number of sites (~200) moving from <1Gbps in bandwidth to 1-10Gb in bandwidth. Our currently deployed low-end router can't handle these speeds and we can't afford to place our high end router at 200+ sites.
So, we're looking for a middle tier router to deploy. Something with 2+ SFP+ ports, software that can handle the aforementioned features, and something with an API that we can leverage for programmatic management.
So far we've not found anything that checks all the boxes. Layer 3 switches seem like obvious choices, but lack some of the features and RIB/FIB we need at the edge. Other devices like the Juniper MX5/10 certainly meet the requirements, but are priced way beyond what we can afford.
Any suggestions for devices we might have overlooked? Preferably in the less than 10K per unit price point. If such a magical device exists.
-Dan
Woops, missed the full tables requirement there.. Never mind. On Apr 8, 2015 4:18 PM, "Tim Jackson" <jackson.tim@gmail.com> wrote:
Cisco ASR902 or Juniper ACX.. On Apr 8, 2015 3:48 PM, "Daniel Rohan" <drohan@gmail.com> wrote:
I work at a state REN and we are seeking a lead for a new edge device for on prem deployment at customer sites.
We currently deploy two classes of routers-- a high end and a low end. Both the high end and the low end use some of the standard edge features: MPLS-TE, MBGP, flowspec, vrf, PIM, etc. We deliver full tables over these devices to the customers that need them.
We recently finished a new ethernet procurement and have a large number of sites (~200) moving from <1Gbps in bandwidth to 1-10Gb in bandwidth. Our currently deployed low-end router can't handle these speeds and we can't afford to place our high end router at 200+ sites.
So, we're looking for a middle tier router to deploy. Something with 2+ SFP+ ports, software that can handle the aforementioned features, and something with an API that we can leverage for programmatic management.
So far we've not found anything that checks all the boxes. Layer 3 switches seem like obvious choices, but lack some of the features and RIB/FIB we need at the edge. Other devices like the Juniper MX5/10 certainly meet the requirements, but are priced way beyond what we can afford.
Any suggestions for devices we might have overlooked? Preferably in the less than 10K per unit price point. If such a magical device exists.
-Dan
Is it a necessity to terminate the layer 3 at the edge? You could get a 10Gbps switch and move it all back to a central location where you have your high end routers. It would then be terminated as a VLAN and be a router on a stick kind of topology. Could be a cheaper way to do it without taking MPLS all the way out to the edge. As Tim said above, I too was thinking about the Juniper ACX. The 5048/5096 model could suit your needs. They are primarily designed as layer 1(TDM)/2 backhaul devices and i'm not sure they can do a full table. They do have full JunOS MPLS features. Could be a way to use MPLS-TE to move the layer 2 back to a core location and terminate later 3 there. Would give you some flexibility over just doing ethernet stuff as I mentioned in the first paragraph. Hamish On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Daniel Rohan <drohan@gmail.com> wrote:
I work at a state REN and we are seeking a lead for a new edge device for on prem deployment at customer sites.
We currently deploy two classes of routers-- a high end and a low end. Both the high end and the low end use some of the standard edge features: MPLS-TE, MBGP, flowspec, vrf, PIM, etc. We deliver full tables over these devices to the customers that need them.
We recently finished a new ethernet procurement and have a large number of sites (~200) moving from <1Gbps in bandwidth to 1-10Gb in bandwidth. Our currently deployed low-end router can't handle these speeds and we can't afford to place our high end router at 200+ sites.
So, we're looking for a middle tier router to deploy. Something with 2+ SFP+ ports, software that can handle the aforementioned features, and something with an API that we can leverage for programmatic management.
So far we've not found anything that checks all the boxes. Layer 3 switches seem like obvious choices, but lack some of the features and RIB/FIB we need at the edge. Other devices like the Juniper MX5/10 certainly meet the requirements, but are priced way beyond what we can afford.
Any suggestions for devices we might have overlooked? Preferably in the less than 10K per unit price point. If such a magical device exists.
-Dan
On 9/Apr/15 01:26, Hamish McGlinn wrote:
As Tim said above, I too was thinking about the Juniper ACX. The 5048/5096 model could suit your needs. They are primarily designed as layer 1(TDM)/2 backhaul devices and i'm not sure they can do a full table. They do have full JunOS MPLS features. Could be a way to use MPLS-TE to move the layer 2 back to a core location and terminate later 3 there. Would give you some flexibility over just doing ethernet stuff as I mentioned in the first paragraph.
The ACX5000 series are Ethernet-only switches. They hold about 120,000 entries in FIB, and as of today despite all the RAM, are only sold with support for 300,000 entries in RIB. The chipset is not Juniper in-house, though; so make sure all your features work. Mark.
The ACX5000 series are Ethernet-only switches.
They hold about 120,000 entries in FIB, and as of today despite all the RAM, are only sold with support for 300,000 entries in RIB.
The chipset is not Juniper in-house, though; so make sure all your features work.
The ACX series is more of a hybrid. They are probably more likened to Layer 2 routers than switches. They are primarily designed as Mobile backhaul devices where integration into existing IP MPLS infrastructure would be a cost saving and design advantage. You can see this with the other models that have the TDM (E1/T1) interfaces. Those models use SAToP and CESoPSN to move TDM based circuits over an MPLS network. It's all rather clever really. The Ethernet ports on those models as well as the ethernet only models are an extension of that. They provide layer 2 interfaces where you don't really require layer 3 services (such as ethernet based mobile backhaul). So they are a switch, yes, but more than that. They utilise MPLS L2VPN/L2Circuits to move ethernet over the MPLS infrastructure. Hence why I thought it could be an alternative to terminating the layer 3 at the edge. Hamish
On 13/Apr/15 00:15, Hamish McGlinn wrote:
The ACX series is more of a hybrid. They are probably more likened to Layer 2 routers than switches. They are primarily designed as Mobile backhaul devices where integration into existing IP MPLS infrastructure would be a cost saving and design advantage. You can see this with the other models that have the TDM (E1/T1) interfaces. Those models use SAToP and CESoPSN to move TDM based circuits over an MPLS network. It's all rather clever really. The Ethernet ports on those models as well as the ethernet only models are an extension of that. They provide layer 2 interfaces where you don't really require layer 3 services (such as ethernet based mobile backhaul). So they are a switch, yes, but more than that. They utilise MPLS L2VPN/L2Circuits to move ethernet over the MPLS infrastructure. Hence why I thought it could be an alternative to terminating the layer 3 at the edge.
What you're referring to are the ACX500 through to the ACX4000 units. The ACX5000 (5048 and 5096, respectively) are Metro-E switches (IP/MPLS routers, really). Unlike the other ACX models, they do not come with any non-Ethernet ports. Mark.
Mikrotik? I believe they support all these features other than maybe flowspec, and you can get a box with a 10G SFP+ port for around $500. On 8 April 2015 at 23:46, Daniel Rohan <drohan@gmail.com> wrote:
I work at a state REN and we are seeking a lead for a new edge device for on prem deployment at customer sites.
We currently deploy two classes of routers-- a high end and a low end. Both the high end and the low end use some of the standard edge features: MPLS-TE, MBGP, flowspec, vrf, PIM, etc. We deliver full tables over these devices to the customers that need them.
We recently finished a new ethernet procurement and have a large number of sites (~200) moving from <1Gbps in bandwidth to 1-10Gb in bandwidth. Our currently deployed low-end router can't handle these speeds and we can't afford to place our high end router at 200+ sites.
So, we're looking for a middle tier router to deploy. Something with 2+ SFP+ ports, software that can handle the aforementioned features, and something with an API that we can leverage for programmatic management.
So far we've not found anything that checks all the boxes. Layer 3 switches seem like obvious choices, but lack some of the features and RIB/FIB we need at the edge. Other devices like the Juniper MX5/10 certainly meet the requirements, but are priced way beyond what we can afford.
Any suggestions for devices we might have overlooked? Preferably in the less than 10K per unit price point. If such a magical device exists.
-Dan
Mikrotik for OS, and Hardware choice would be to use an X86 appliance (Lanner Electronics, Axiomtek etc) You should be able to get a cost effective box that will meet your performance requirements. As to feature set, while most of them are their you should do some testing to see if feature set meets your requirements. Most folks often forget that Mikrotik is OS and they also make Hardware (a variety of sizes for a variety of needs), and the OS can be deployed on standard or custom hardware server or appliances. You can always go the 'Custom' Linux Route, using x86 boxes with your own distro, too bad that Vyatta OS took a different route under Brocade.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom ----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Rohan" <drohan@gmail.com> To: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 6:46:40 PM Subject: Multi-gigabit edge devices as CPE
I work at a state REN and we are seeking a lead for a new edge device for on prem deployment at customer sites.
We currently deploy two classes of routers-- a high end and a low end. Both the high end and the low end use some of the standard edge features: MPLS-TE, MBGP, flowspec, vrf, PIM, etc. We deliver full tables over these devices to the customers that need them.
We recently finished a new ethernet procurement and have a large number of sites (~200) moving from <1Gbps in bandwidth to 1-10Gb in bandwidth. Our currently deployed low-end router can't handle these speeds and we can't afford to place our high end router at 200+ sites.
So, we're looking for a middle tier router to deploy. Something with 2+ SFP+ ports, software that can handle the aforementioned features, and something with an API that we can leverage for programmatic management.
So far we've not found anything that checks all the boxes. Layer 3 switches seem like obvious choices, but lack some of the features and RIB/FIB we need at the edge. Other devices like the Juniper MX5/10 certainly meet the requirements, but are priced way beyond what we can afford.
Any suggestions for devices we might have overlooked? Preferably in the less than 10K per unit price point. If such a magical device exists.
-Dan
Dan, The new asr920 by cisco would fit 4x10g SFP+ and 24 ports SFP or copper 1g line rate about 6 k list without license . You can leverage netconf yang model as its cisco edge or other flavor choice You can unicast if you want more data as we've done EFI and evaluated them in our labs Bob Watson
On Apr 8, 2015, at 7:15 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:
Mikrotik for OS, and Hardware choice would be to use an X86 appliance (Lanner Electronics, Axiomtek etc) You should be able to get a cost effective box that will meet your performance requirements. As to feature set, while most of them are their you should do some testing to see if feature set meets your requirements.
Most folks often forget that Mikrotik is OS and they also make Hardware (a variety of sizes for a variety of needs), and the OS can be deployed on standard or custom hardware server or appliances.
You can always go the 'Custom' Linux Route, using x86 boxes with your own distro, too bad that Vyatta OS took a different route under Brocade..
Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Rohan" <drohan@gmail.com> To: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 6:46:40 PM Subject: Multi-gigabit edge devices as CPE
I work at a state REN and we are seeking a lead for a new edge device for on prem deployment at customer sites.
We currently deploy two classes of routers-- a high end and a low end. Both the high end and the low end use some of the standard edge features: MPLS-TE, MBGP, flowspec, vrf, PIM, etc. We deliver full tables over these devices to the customers that need them.
We recently finished a new ethernet procurement and have a large number of sites (~200) moving from <1Gbps in bandwidth to 1-10Gb in bandwidth. Our currently deployed low-end router can't handle these speeds and we can't afford to place our high end router at 200+ sites.
So, we're looking for a middle tier router to deploy. Something with 2+ SFP+ ports, software that can handle the aforementioned features, and something with an API that we can leverage for programmatic management.
So far we've not found anything that checks all the boxes. Layer 3 switches seem like obvious choices, but lack some of the features and RIB/FIB we need at the edge. Other devices like the Juniper MX5/10 certainly meet the requirements, but are priced way beyond what we can afford.
Any suggestions for devices we might have overlooked? Preferably in the less than 10K per unit price point. If such a magical device exists.
-Dan
On 9/Apr/15 03:01, Watson, Bob wrote:
Dan, The new asr920 by cisco would fit 4x10g SFP+ and 24 ports SFP or copper 1g line rate about 6 k list without license . You can leverage netconf yang model as its cisco edge or other flavor choice
You can unicast if you want more data as we've done EFI and evaluated them in our labs
But it only holds 20,000 IPv4 entries in FIB - quite paltry if he wants a full table. Then again, BGP-SD + selective routing into FIB could fix that. Mark.
VyOS is a community fork of Vyatta and is still being developed very actively and it pushing ahead with many new features! It's pretty stable too imo. http://vyos.net/wiki/Main_Page Regards, Tim Raphael
On 9 Apr 2015, at 8:14 am, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:
Mikrotik for OS, and Hardware choice would be to use an X86 appliance (Lanner Electronics, Axiomtek etc) You should be able to get a cost effective box that will meet your performance requirements. As to feature set, while most of them are their you should do some testing to see if feature set meets your requirements.
Most folks often forget that Mikrotik is OS and they also make Hardware (a variety of sizes for a variety of needs), and the OS can be deployed on standard or custom hardware server or appliances.
You can always go the 'Custom' Linux Route, using x86 boxes with your own distro, too bad that Vyatta OS took a different route under Brocade..
Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Rohan" <drohan@gmail.com> To: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 6:46:40 PM Subject: Multi-gigabit edge devices as CPE
I work at a state REN and we are seeking a lead for a new edge device for on prem deployment at customer sites.
We currently deploy two classes of routers-- a high end and a low end. Both the high end and the low end use some of the standard edge features: MPLS-TE, MBGP, flowspec, vrf, PIM, etc. We deliver full tables over these devices to the customers that need them.
We recently finished a new ethernet procurement and have a large number of sites (~200) moving from <1Gbps in bandwidth to 1-10Gb in bandwidth. Our currently deployed low-end router can't handle these speeds and we can't afford to place our high end router at 200+ sites.
So, we're looking for a middle tier router to deploy. Something with 2+ SFP+ ports, software that can handle the aforementioned features, and something with an API that we can leverage for programmatic management.
So far we've not found anything that checks all the boxes. Layer 3 switches seem like obvious choices, but lack some of the features and RIB/FIB we need at the edge. Other devices like the Juniper MX5/10 certainly meet the requirements, but are priced way beyond what we can afford.
Any suggestions for devices we might have overlooked? Preferably in the less than 10K per unit price point. If such a magical device exists.
-Dan
No MPLS though, if that is a requirement. On 04/08/2015 05:11 PM, Tim Raphael wrote:
VyOS is a community fork of Vyatta and is still being developed very actively and it pushing ahead with many new features! It's pretty stable too imo.
http://vyos.net/wiki/Main_Page
Regards,
Tim Raphael
On 9 Apr 2015, at 8:14 am, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:
Mikrotik for OS, and Hardware choice would be to use an X86 appliance (Lanner Electronics, Axiomtek etc) You should be able to get a cost effective box that will meet your performance requirements. As to feature set, while most of them are their you should do some testing to see if feature set meets your requirements.
Most folks often forget that Mikrotik is OS and they also make Hardware (a variety of sizes for a variety of needs), and the OS can be deployed on standard or custom hardware server or appliances.
You can always go the 'Custom' Linux Route, using x86 boxes with your own distro, too bad that Vyatta OS took a different route under Brocade..
Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Rohan" <drohan@gmail.com> To: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 6:46:40 PM Subject: Multi-gigabit edge devices as CPE
I work at a state REN and we are seeking a lead for a new edge device for on prem deployment at customer sites.
We currently deploy two classes of routers-- a high end and a low end. Both the high end and the low end use some of the standard edge features: MPLS-TE, MBGP, flowspec, vrf, PIM, etc. We deliver full tables over these devices to the customers that need them.
We recently finished a new ethernet procurement and have a large number of sites (~200) moving from <1Gbps in bandwidth to 1-10Gb in bandwidth. Our currently deployed low-end router can't handle these speeds and we can't afford to place our high end router at 200+ sites.
So, we're looking for a middle tier router to deploy. Something with 2+ SFP+ ports, software that can handle the aforementioned features, and something with an API that we can leverage for programmatic management.
So far we've not found anything that checks all the boxes. Layer 3 switches seem like obvious choices, but lack some of the features and RIB/FIB we need at the edge. Other devices like the Juniper MX5/10 certainly meet the requirements, but are priced way beyond what we can afford.
Any suggestions for devices we might have overlooked? Preferably in the less than 10K per unit price point. If such a magical device exists.
-Dan
Correct. But hopefully not far off now that there are x86 packages for simple MPLS operations. With a bit of luck an RSVP or LDP implementation isn't far behind. Regards, Tim Raphael
On 9 Apr 2015, at 9:14 am, Josh Reynolds <josh@spitwspots.com> wrote:
No MPLS though, if that is a requirement.
On 04/08/2015 05:11 PM, Tim Raphael wrote: VyOS is a community fork of Vyatta and is still being developed very actively and it pushing ahead with many new features! It's pretty stable too imo.
http://vyos.net/wiki/Main_Page
Regards,
Tim Raphael
On 9 Apr 2015, at 8:14 am, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:
Mikrotik for OS, and Hardware choice would be to use an X86 appliance (Lanner Electronics, Axiomtek etc) You should be able to get a cost effective box that will meet your performance requirements. As to feature set, while most of them are their you should do some testing to see if feature set meets your requirements.
Most folks often forget that Mikrotik is OS and they also make Hardware (a variety of sizes for a variety of needs), and the OS can be deployed on standard or custom hardware server or appliances.
You can always go the 'Custom' Linux Route, using x86 boxes with your own distro, too bad that Vyatta OS took a different route under Brocade..
Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Rohan" <drohan@gmail.com> To: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 6:46:40 PM Subject: Multi-gigabit edge devices as CPE
I work at a state REN and we are seeking a lead for a new edge device for on prem deployment at customer sites.
We currently deploy two classes of routers-- a high end and a low end. Both the high end and the low end use some of the standard edge features: MPLS-TE, MBGP, flowspec, vrf, PIM, etc. We deliver full tables over these devices to the customers that need them.
We recently finished a new ethernet procurement and have a large number of sites (~200) moving from <1Gbps in bandwidth to 1-10Gb in bandwidth. Our currently deployed low-end router can't handle these speeds and we can't afford to place our high end router at 200+ sites.
So, we're looking for a middle tier router to deploy. Something with 2+ SFP+ ports, software that can handle the aforementioned features, and something with an API that we can leverage for programmatic management.
So far we've not found anything that checks all the boxes. Layer 3 switches seem like obvious choices, but lack some of the features and RIB/FIB we need at the edge. Other devices like the Juniper MX5/10 certainly meet the requirements, but are priced way beyond what we can afford.
Any suggestions for devices we might have overlooked? Preferably in the less than 10K per unit price point. If such a magical device exists.
-Dan
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 6:36 PM, Tim Raphael <raphael.timothy@gmail.com> wrote:
Correct. But hopefully not far off now that there are x86 packages for simple MPLS operations. With a bit of luck an RSVP or LDP implementation isn't far behind.
Just sitting around whining and waiting for someone else to do the job is nowhere near as effective as chipping in and helping... or funding the efforts that exist. -- Dave Täht Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware** https://plus.google.com/u/0/107942175615993706558/posts/N8mZ5F5iSPU
I find this rather offensive as you clearly have no idea what I have contributed to the OSS community or more specifically to the VyOS project. Among working, studying a masters degree and a little sleep to keep me sane, I already do what I can. Tim
On 9 Apr 2015, at 10:42 am, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 6:36 PM, Tim Raphael <raphael.timothy@gmail.com> wrote: Correct. But hopefully not far off now that there are x86 packages for simple MPLS operations. With a bit of luck an RSVP or LDP implementation isn't far behind.
Just sitting around whining and waiting for someone else to do the job is nowhere near as effective as chipping in and helping... or funding the efforts that exist.
-- Dave Täht Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware**
https://plus.google.com/u/0/107942175615993706558/posts/N8mZ5F5iSPU
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Tim Raphael <raphael.timothy@gmail.com> wrote:
I find this rather offensive as you clearly have no idea what I have contributed to the OSS community or more specifically to the VyOS project.
Among working, studying a masters degree and a little sleep to keep me sane, I already do what I can.
My sincere apologies. At the time, that kickstarter was failing, and I was mindblown that nobody had seen the potential of it, and I had spent 3 days, trying to convince more people to throw in, as I had already thrown in all I could. My comment was directed far more at the universe than yourself and was more in the context of my prior bufferbloat-related rant earlier in the day, which I have spent 4 years on, mostly full time, and mostly unpaid. I am still sad that nobody threw in for that get one give one program (who pays for the software engineers?), and that it took events like heartbleed to get the LF´s core infrastructure inititative funded, and, well, frankly, it is a long, long list of things that bug me that have accumulated... that I will try to keep off this list.
Tim
On 9 Apr 2015, at 10:42 am, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 6:36 PM, Tim Raphael <raphael.timothy@gmail.com> wrote: Correct. But hopefully not far off now that there are x86 packages for simple MPLS operations. With a bit of luck an RSVP or LDP implementation isn't far behind.
So to return this to a more rational basis - why does an edge network need MPLS in the first place? -- Dave Täht Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware** https://plus.google.com/u/0/107942175615993706558/posts/N8mZ5F5iSPU
L3VPN hand off is the only thing I can think of from the top of my head. But then, there would be no need to have a full table unless you had customers requesting a full table. It sounds like the OP is looking for one device to do multiple roles where two/three different device types and/or sizes would fit better.
On 9 Apr 2015, at 10:18 pm, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
So to return this to a more rational basis - why does an edge network need MPLS in the first place?
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 7:25 AM, Tim Raphael <raphael.timothy@gmail.com> wrote:
L3VPN hand off is the only thing I can think of from the top of my head. But then, there would be no need to have a full table unless you had customers requesting a full table.
Well my interpretation was that IPv4 address space had become so scarce that other methods were becoming more needed even on the high end edge networks.
It sounds like the OP is looking for one device to do multiple roles where two/three different device types and/or sizes would fit better.
But that seems more plausible.
On 9 Apr 2015, at 10:18 pm, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
So to return this to a more rational basis - why does an edge network need MPLS in the first place?
-- Dave Täht Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware** https://plus.google.com/u/0/107942175615993706558/posts/N8mZ5F5iSPU
I think e in ren is edu not edge L3vpn or L2vpn for pseudo back haul or l2 extensions State ren I assume to stand for regional education network so likely vrf would be public internet possibly Internet 2 , district traffic, maybe higher Ed access for night class and vice versa. One way to achieve 10g mpls plus full table and stay under 10k you may be better served to break out pre-agg role for mpls and private L3 hand off and for Internet peering step a hop back and peer at agg with a heavy duty juniper or cisco box over a l2vpn extension to the CE Sent from my iPad
On Apr 9, 2015, at 9:26 AM, Tim Raphael <raphael.timothy@gmail.com> wrote:
L3VPN hand off is the only thing I can think of from the top of my head. But then, there would be no need to have a full table unless you had customers requesting a full table.
It sounds like the OP is looking for one device to do multiple roles where two/three different device types and/or sizes would fit better.
On 9 Apr 2015, at 10:18 pm, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
So to return this to a more rational basis - why does an edge network need MPLS in the first place?
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 7:25 AM, Tim Raphael <raphael.timothy@gmail.com> wrote:
L3VPN hand off is the only thing I can think of from the top of my head. But then, there would be no need to have a full table unless you had customers requesting a full table.
I have one customer who needs an L3VPN for some shared private routes along with a full table in inet.0. There are ways of accomplishing this creatively but I'm looking for devices that can handle these types of requests that permit us some level of sanity.
You’ll be looking at a Juniper MX or a Cisco ASK9K I think. The MXs are targeted as being full-features edge routers. An MX5 will take a full feed just fine and do all the *VPN you want. If you’re talking about multiple full feeds then you’ll need a MX240 with one of the higher-power REs for a decent reconvergence time.
On 9 Apr 2015, at 10:42 pm, Daniel Rohan <drohan@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 7:25 AM, Tim Raphael <raphael.timothy@gmail.com <mailto:raphael.timothy@gmail.com>> wrote: L3VPN hand off is the only thing I can think of from the top of my head. But then, there would be no need to have a full table unless you had customers requesting a full table.
I have one customer who needs an L3VPN for some shared private routes along with a full table in inet.0. There are ways of accomplishing this creatively but I'm looking for devices that can handle these types of requests that permit us some level of sanity.
You could possibly look at rolling vMX (if it's even available yet) on x86 hardware. It's licensed by throughput and feature set. If you are doing L3VPN, I think you would need the advanced license. This may fit within your budget. On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 10:50 AM, Tim Raphael <raphael.timothy@gmail.com> wrote:
You’ll be looking at a Juniper MX or a Cisco ASK9K I think.
The MXs are targeted as being full-features edge routers. An MX5 will take a full feed just fine and do all the *VPN you want. If you’re talking about multiple full feeds then you’ll need a MX240 with one of the higher-power REs for a decent reconvergence time.
On 9 Apr 2015, at 10:42 pm, Daniel Rohan <drohan@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 7:25 AM, Tim Raphael <raphael.timothy@gmail.com <mailto:raphael.timothy@gmail.com>> wrote: L3VPN hand off is the only thing I can think of from the top of my head. But then, there would be no need to have a full table unless you had customers requesting a full table.
I have one customer who needs an L3VPN for some shared private routes along with a full table in inet.0. There are ways of accomplishing this creatively but I'm looking for devices that can handle these types of requests that permit us some level of sanity.
I didn’t research the full feature list, but you might take a quick look at Mikrotik. www.mikrotik.com -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Tim Raphael Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2015 10:51 AM To: Daniel Rohan Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Multi-gigabit edge devices as CPE You’ll be looking at a Juniper MX or a Cisco ASK9K I think. The MXs are targeted as being full-features edge routers. An MX5 will take a full feed just fine and do all the *VPN you want. If you’re talking about multiple full feeds then you’ll need a MX240 with one of the higher-power REs for a decent reconvergence time.
On 9 Apr 2015, at 10:42 pm, Daniel Rohan <drohan@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 7:25 AM, Tim Raphael <raphael.timothy@gmail.com <mailto:raphael.timothy@gmail.com>> wrote: L3VPN hand off is the only thing I can think of from the top of my head. But then, there would be no need to have a full table unless you had customers requesting a full table.
I have one customer who needs an L3VPN for some shared private routes along with a full table in inet.0. There are ways of accomplishing this creatively but I'm looking for devices that can handle these types of requests that permit us some level of sanity.
On April 9, 2015 at 09:11 raphael.timothy@gmail.com (Tim Raphael) wrote:
VyOS is a community fork of Vyatta and is still being developed very actively and it pushing ahead with many new features! It's pretty stable too imo.
SPEAKING of OSS routers... Does anyone know of a single OSS project which supports the usual BGP etc kind of things (routing) AND virtual hosting, the terminology is muddled, but one IP in, chooses among one or more IPs for load-balancing (not to be confused with device load-balancing), fail-over, round-robin, other policies? The typical web farm kind of thing, but for other kinds of services also like mail, imap, etc. I know one can piece together more than one project but then one has to get them to play together and learn their quirks and so forth. For example I don't think any Mikrotik (ok not strictly OSS but they seem nice) supports the virtual host stuff unless I'm missing it. I have some very old Alteons that do the virtual host stuff well enough but they are very long in the tooth (no IPv6, BGP is so old it's useless to the point of scary, etc.) P.S. No particular need for fancy WAN interfaces, ethernet presentations are fine. -- -Barry Shein The World | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*
You can do this for free with equal cost multi path routing. You announce the same IP from multiple servers with eg. OSPF. Den 09/04/2015 19.34 skrev "Barry Shein" <bzs@world.std.com>:
On April 9, 2015 at 09:11 raphael.timothy@gmail.com (Tim Raphael) wrote:
VyOS is a community fork of Vyatta and is still being developed very actively and it pushing ahead with many new features! It's pretty stable too imo.
SPEAKING of OSS routers...
Does anyone know of a single OSS project which supports the usual BGP etc kind of things (routing) AND virtual hosting, the terminology is muddled, but one IP in, chooses among one or more IPs for load-balancing (not to be confused with device load-balancing), fail-over, round-robin, other policies? The typical web farm kind of thing, but for other kinds of services also like mail, imap, etc.
I know one can piece together more than one project but then one has to get them to play together and learn their quirks and so forth. For example I don't think any Mikrotik (ok not strictly OSS but they seem nice) supports the virtual host stuff unless I'm missing it.
I have some very old Alteons that do the virtual host stuff well enough but they are very long in the tooth (no IPv6, BGP is so old it's useless to the point of scary, etc.)
P.S. No particular need for fancy WAN interfaces, ethernet presentations are fine.
-- -Barry Shein
The World | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*
On April 9, 2015 at 20:50 baldur.norddahl@gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) wrote:
You can do this for free with equal cost multi path routing. You announce the same IP from multiple servers with eg. OSPF.
True, and thanks, but that's just the beginning of an implementation, you still need all the gunk that detects and reacts to down or overloaded hosts, whether you want to do MAC or IP level redirecting, how data travels back to the remote host (directly or via the box's IP, NAT-like?), priority management, firewall functions, statistics gathering, blame apportionment (if I build it myself who do I get to blame?), etc. -b
Den 09/04/2015 19.34 skrev "Barry Shein" <bzs@world.std.com>:
On April 9, 2015 at 09:11 raphael.timothy@gmail.com (Tim Raphael) wrote:
VyOS is a community fork of Vyatta and is still being developed very actively and it pushing ahead with many new features! It's pretty stable too imo.
SPEAKING of OSS routers...
Does anyone know of a single OSS project which supports the usual BGP etc kind of things (routing) AND virtual hosting, the terminology is muddled, but one IP in, chooses among one or more IPs for load-balancing (not to be confused with device load-balancing), fail-over, round-robin, other policies? The typical web farm kind of thing, but for other kinds of services also like mail, imap, etc.
I know one can piece together more than one project but then one has to get them to play together and learn their quirks and so forth. For example I don't think any Mikrotik (ok not strictly OSS but they seem nice) supports the virtual host stuff unless I'm missing it.
I have some very old Alteons that do the virtual host stuff well enough but they are very long in the tooth (no IPv6, BGP is so old it's useless to the point of scary, etc.)
P.S. No particular need for fancy WAN interfaces, ethernet presentations are fine.
-- -Barry Shein
The World | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*
There is no redirecting as all the hosts have the same IP (typically on the loopback interface). Traffic goes back directly. You can even do priority but I would not. You get host down detection as the route will be withdrawn. You do not get server overload. On the other hand I am not sure I want such feature. I would use it to load balance the load balancers / web cache / ssl proxy and it should be quite good for that purpose. Regards Baldur Den 09/04/2015 21.48 skrev "Barry Shein" <bzs@world.std.com>:
On April 9, 2015 at 20:50 baldur.norddahl@gmail.com (Baldur Norddahl) wrote:
You can do this for free with equal cost multi path routing. You announce the same IP from multiple servers with eg. OSPF.
True, and thanks, but that's just the beginning of an implementation, you still need all the gunk that detects and reacts to down or overloaded hosts, whether you want to do MAC or IP level redirecting, how data travels back to the remote host (directly or via the box's IP, NAT-like?), priority management, firewall functions, statistics gathering, blame apportionment (if I build it myself who do I get to blame?), etc.
-b
Den 09/04/2015 19.34 skrev "Barry Shein" <bzs@world.std.com>:
On April 9, 2015 at 09:11 raphael.timothy@gmail.com (Tim Raphael)
wrote:
VyOS is a community fork of Vyatta and is still being developed very actively and it pushing ahead with many new features! It's pretty stable too imo.
SPEAKING of OSS routers...
Does anyone know of a single OSS project which supports the usual BGP etc kind of things (routing) AND virtual hosting, the terminology is muddled, but one IP in, chooses among one or more IPs for load-balancing (not to be confused with device load-balancing), fail-over, round-robin, other policies? The typical web farm kind of thing, but for other kinds of services also like mail, imap, etc.
I know one can piece together more than one project but then one has to get them to play together and learn their quirks and so forth. For example I don't think any Mikrotik (ok not strictly OSS but they seem nice) supports the virtual host stuff unless I'm missing it.
I have some very old Alteons that do the virtual host stuff well enough but they are very long in the tooth (no IPv6, BGP is so old it's useless to the point of scary, etc.)
P.S. No particular need for fancy WAN interfaces, ethernet presentations are fine.
-- -Barry Shein
The World | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 800-THE-WRLD | Dial-Up: US, PR, Canada Software Tool & Die | Public Access Internet | SINCE 1989 *oo*
participants (14)
-
Baldur Norddahl -
Barry Shein -
Daniel Rohan -
Dave Bell -
Dave Taht -
Faisal Imtiaz -
Hamish McGlinn -
Josh Baird -
Josh Reynolds -
Mark Tinka -
Tim Jackson -
Tim Raphael -
timrutherford＠c4.net -
Watson, Bob