re: "Are you aware of any such cases?" Before I run too far afield of my main point, it's the LAN closets right now that are superficial and require the most attention and overhauling. Also on tap are local in-building data centers, remotes, colos, etc. And not necessarily in that order.
every other piece of hardware that I have been responsible for in even a 35-person, simple LAN setup ... has had to have me lay hands on it at odd, unplanned times to keep working.<<
You can't lay your hands on equipment that's no longer in existence because it's been eliminated, for starters. This is probably the most important point to grasp. There is no LAN equipment on site anymore once you've backhauled your desktops directly to a central site over optical channels. And to do this, fiber to the desktop (and a generous smattering of WLANs never hurts) must be considered first, no longer brought back to the local closet, but rather to one or two central locations that could either be in-building or to a nearby data center or colo. Or as far away as applications will permit. That last sentence should serve as evidence that I've learned my lesson ;) Some enterprises (including several large federal government agencies) have done parts of what I'm referring to, but none that I am aware of has done it all. By the same token, nothing that I've mentioned has NOT been tried somewhere by some enterprise before, which is to say that every aspect of fiber extension that I've mentioned thus far is currently working somewhere in an enterprise or shared data center today. In the large enterprise space we've already seen, time and again now, how leased optical facilities and dark fiber networks alike support server farms in remote data centers and public colos bringing data back to desktops in business offices. VPNs also come to mind. Think: FiOS. Why would supporting the desktops of a 1,000 or 10,000 employee company, which desktops would be scattered over a half-dozen or a hundred urban and exurban sites, be any different than supporting the same number of residential subscribers who are being supported by fiber to the home? Indeed Verizon has already deployed the equivalent of FiOS to some federal government agencies, while holding back in the enterprise. I suppose they are holding back in the enterprise for fear of cannibalizing its own lucrative leased line business, although there could be other reasons having to do with the awkward and time consuming process they undergo while formally "productizing" their services. Multiple cable system pperator Bright House Networks is using passive-optical networks (PONs) today akin to Verizon's FiOS, sans the video part, to do this very thing in support of businesses in central Florida as I type. http://www.allbusiness.com/services/business-services/4516302-1.html The method of supporting end users being used by Bright House Networks is the same as I outlined earlier in respect to the LAN admin operating from Mumbai. In general, the LAN part, or more to the point, fiber to the desktop is a relative slam dunk compared to the intricacies of tuning applications within data centers, colos and IXes, I grant you that. As they say, however, you've gotta start somewhere. Frank A. Coluccio DTI Consulting Inc. 212-587-8150 Office 347-526-6788 Mobile On Sat Mar 29 21:14 , Patrick Giagnocavo sent:
Frank Coluccio wrote:
I'd like to see a case where someone actually did what you proposed and were successful at it, in a for-profit company.
Are you aware of any such cases?
Because outside of Solaris and Linux servers, every other piece of hardware that I have been responsible for in even a 35-person, simple LAN setup (the smallest and simplest config anyone on this list could possibly have), has had to have me lay hands on it at odd, unplanned times to keep working.
Cordially
Patrick Giagnocavo patrick@zill.net
On 3/29/08 9:53 PM, "Frank Coluccio" <frank@dticonsulting.com> wrote:
There is no LAN equipment on site anymore once you've backhauled your desktops directly to a central site over optical channels.
So are you envisioning ANY sort of aggregation at all? I mean for this to be at all practical you'd have to have some sort of DWDM aggregation point or something, wouldn't you? And if that's the case then haven't you just swapped one kind of equipment for another? -- John A. Kilpatrick john@hypergeek.net Email| http://www.hypergeek.net/ john-page@hypergeek.net Text pages| ICQ: 19147504 remember: no obstacles/only challenges
And to do this, fiber to the desktop (and a generous smattering of WLANs never hurts) must be considered first, no longer brought back to the local closet, but rather to one or two central locations that could either be in-building or to a nearby data center or colo. Or as far away as applications will permit. That last sentence should serve as evidence that I've learned my lesson ;)
I didn't want to jump into this thread, but hey, its Monday. This is just another kind of moving the bump down the carpet. By replacing semi-smart electronics in your closet, you need a massive number of ports in your 1 or two consolidation locations (which might mean all the same equipment you would've had in your wiring closet in one or two rooms). This much cable (fiber or otherwise), especially if you have 1 drop to each "PC", "Phone" or other (current or future) IP/network-talker is massive. If you use a consolidated cable (800+ pairs) its expensive, heavy and more expensive to work with. When pairs die, you end up running additional stringers. By contrast, aggregation at a wiring closet (while it usually requires a little power and in worst case some cooling) allows you to run lots of cables to a single point using simple structural wiring. Aggregate, and then move on. Fewer "uplinks" easier-to-upgrade "uplinks" (1 vs 1000s). More on-the-floor capacity (vs hauling to the basement where your central distribution frames are). Not to mention small bundles of cable are easier to test than a massive cross-connect frame [by easier, I mean, you can have a less technically savvy tester do it and not screw anything up]. Anyway, as Randy Bush says, I would encourage my competitors to do this. Deepak
participants (3)
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Deepak Jain -
Frank Coluccio -
John A. Kilpatrick