Hi everyone, Is it common for an ISP to install a lased line (circuit) and when the service ends, the service is not unbundled again but all the cabling is left where it is? I have even seen that a circuit is still active on there exchanges after years and no one at the ISP seems to care that they are wasting there own resources. Thanks and best regards, Alexander
Greetings, On Thu, 29 Jan 2009, itmailinglist wrote:
Hi everyone, Is it common for an ISP to install a lased line (circuit) and when the service ends, the service is not unbundled again but all the cabling is left where it is? I have even seen that a circuit is still active on there exchanges after years and no one at the ISP seems to care that they are wasting there own resources.
*EVERY* ISP I have consulted for has failed to perform the simplest of Order Entry processes, including an item-by-item checklist of what to do when a customer disconnects. At each ISP we have found numerous circuits still in place and being paid for month after month. Only when we have gone through all of their circuit billings and customer accounts do we find all the loose ends and get their record keeping cleaned up. And then set them up with internal processes and databases that prevent such costly errors. --- Jay Nugent ISPmonitor.org "You can't manage what you can't measure" Providing monitoring and consulting services for ISP's Train how you will Operate, and you will Operate how you were Trained. +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jay Nugent jjn@nuge.com (734)484-5105 (734)649-0850/Cell | | Nugent Telecommunications [www.nuge.com] | | Internet Consulting/Linux SysAdmin/Engineering & Design/ISP Reseller | | ISP Monitoring [www.ispmonitor.org] ISP & Modem Performance Monitoring | | Web-Pegasus [www.webpegasus.com] Web Hosting/DNS Hosting/Shell Accts| +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ 8:01am up 60 days, 16:28, 4 users, load average: 0.72, 0.16, 0.05
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jay Nugent wrote:
*EVERY* ISP I have consulted for has failed to perform the simplest of Order Entry processes, including an item-by-item checklist of what to do when a customer disconnects. At each ISP we have found numerous circuits still in place and being paid for month after month.
Circuits seems worse, but they also don't seem to track their CPE at all. We have boxes full of various teleco CPE, including some Cisco 800 and 1600 routers. I guess it costs more than it's worth to recover it, but the irritating thing is we have to hold it "incase" they ever ask for it. I even have a cabinet full of patch/cross-connect gear at one site. The teleco took some of the NTU kit from it when it was cancelled, said they would be back for the rest and 2 years later there it stands :) Murpheys' law says the instant I tie it to the roof of my car, they will ask when they can come collect it... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFJga+80FZZWLfHKjURAgkmAJ9C88Y7e04JD2NrY2y2WM7FQdk5oQCfRXE3 9nzfCipzoCfCNmw6n3XBME0= =tWQV -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Colin Alston wrote:
I even have a cabinet full of patch/cross-connect gear at one site. The teleco took some of the NTU kit from it when it was cancelled, said they would be back for the rest and 2 years later there it stands :)
Murpheys' law says the instant I tie it to the roof of my car, they will ask when they can come collect it...
For equipment that can be moved, and is still vaguely useful, send them a certified letter, explaining that you will be donating all this equipment to X (my personal suggestion is Cymru) upon a certain date not too far in the future, if arrangements are not made to retrieve it. Once you've received the signature back, and the date arrives, donate it. -- Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. Brian W. Kernighan
On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 03:31:40PM +0200, Colin Alston wrote:
Circuits seems worse, but they also don't seem to track their CPE at all. We have boxes full of various teleco CPE, including some Cisco 800 and 1600 routers. I guess it costs more than it's worth to recover it, but the irritating thing is we have to hold it "incase" they ever ask for it.
Well, SOME of that is a deliberate decision. I mean, equipment is expected to have a useful life and then either fail or be obsolete. Some custsomers can carry a contract 4 or 5 years. At that point, the equipment they had may well not be in use anywhere else on the network. There's not much point in reclaiming equipment you can't use and can't get a decent value for through the various disposal channels. But yeah, ISPs and telcos as well are generally horrible about reclaiming property. --- Wayne Bouchard web@typo.org Network Dude http://www.typo.org/~web/
Colin Alston wrote:
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Jay Nugent wrote:
*EVERY* ISP I have consulted for has failed to perform the simplest of Order Entry processes, including an item-by-item checklist of what to do when a customer disconnects. At each ISP we have found numerous circuits still in place and being paid for month after month.
Circuits seems worse, but they also don't seem to track their CPE at all. We have boxes full of various teleco CPE, including some Cisco 800 and 1600 routers. I guess it costs more than it's worth to recover it, but the irritating thing is we have to hold it "incase" they ever ask for it.
I even have a cabinet full of patch/cross-connect gear at one site. The teleco took some of the NTU kit from it when it was cancelled, said they would be back for the rest and 2 years later there it stands :)
Murpheys' law says the instant I tie it to the roof of my car, they will ask when they can come collect it...
Same here; cabinet full of telco stuff. I've showed it to several techs and they've all told me they wouldn't reuse it anyway so there's no point in taking it back. ~Seth
Is it common for an ISP to install a lased line (circuit) and when the service ends, the service is not unbundled again but all the cabling is left where it is? I have even seen that a circuit is still active on there exchanges after years and no one at the ISP seems to care that they are wasting there own resources.
At various jobs, I too have seen boxes of CPE gear waiting for the phone call out of the blue demanding it back, and circuits that are still live despite being disconnected ages ago (and not being paid for). On the home front, I canceled my digital cable years ago, but they never asked for the converter boxes back, nor did they physically disconnect the cable (I have satellite nowdays). I have never seen them remove cables, etc. it's just too expensive to bother with. The exception to this is Verizon when they do a FiOS install .. except they actually remove the *competitor's* cables, if the customer asks them to (which is preceded by the question "hey .. while I'm up there, I can take down that ugly wire if you ask me to.."). Cheers, ~Mike.
Sometimes it's the telco. We've issued disconnects for copper-based T1s, and seen the HDSL card still powered years later. itmailinglist wrote:
Hi everyone,
Is it common for an ISP to install a lased line (circuit) and when the service ends, the service is not unbundled again but all the cabling is left where it is? I have even seen that a circuit is still active on there exchanges after years and no one at the ISP seems to care that they are wasting there own resources.
Thanks and best regards,
Alexander
participants (8)
-
Bruce Robertson -
Colin Alston -
Etaoin Shrdlu -
itmailinglist -
Jay Nugent -
Michael Holstein -
Seth Mattinen -
Wayne E. Bouchard