Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can.
----- Forwarded message from Asad Haider <asad@asadhaider.co.uk> ----- From: Asad Haider <asad@asadhaider.co.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 19:37:24 +0000 To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can. Reply-To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org William will be posting a statement soon which will explain everything that's happened and give a detailed account of events, along with evidence including pictures showing the aftermath of the raid in his apartment, as well as copies of the warrant and inventory of seized items. He runs a large ISP in Austria and is a well respected member of the community, a lot of us have already sent in donations. His blog is https://rdns.im/ and I'm guessing the statement will be posted on there, I'll send everyone a link once it's finished being written. On 29 November 2012 19:22, Eugen Leitl <eugen@leitl.org> wrote:
----- Forwarded message from Emily Ozols <wingar@team-metro.net> -----
From: Emily Ozols <wingar@team-metro.net> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 01:14:08 +1100 To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can.
Hi,
I gotta ask and I'm sure someone would if I didn't, but how do we know this guy is legit? He's jumped up on a forum saying, "Hey, police raided me, help. gib mone plz" and failed to provide and reason as to how he's real and not just making it up.
Maybe if there's a way to know this guy is legit, I'll help out if possible, but until then I'm just going to watch others with caution and I suggest others do as well.
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Chris <caldcv@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not William and a friend pasted a link on IRC to me. I'm going to send him a few bucks because I know how it feels to get blindsided by the police on one random day and your world is turned upside down.
Source: http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/6283/raided-for-running-a-tor-exit-acce...
From the URL:
Yes, it happened to me now as well - Yesterday i got raided for someone sharing child pornography over one of my Tor exits. I'm good so far, not in jail, but all my computers and hardware have been confiscated. (20 computers, 100TB+ storage, My Tablets/Consoles/Phones)
If convicted i could face up to 6 years in jail, of course i do not want that and i also want to try to set a legal base for running Tor exit nodes in Austria or even the EU.
Sadly we have nothing like the EFF here that could help me in this case by legal assistance, so i'm on my own and require a good lawyer. Thus i'm accepting donations for my legal expenses which i expect to be around 5000-10000 EUR.
If you can i would appreciate if you could donate a bit (every amount helps, even the smallest) either by PayPal (any currency is ok):
https://paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=2Q4LZNBBD7EH4
Or by Bank Transfer (EUR only please):
Holder: William Weber Bank: EasyBank AG (Vienna, Austria) Account: 20011351213 Bank sort number: 14200 IBAN: AT031420020011351213 BIC: EASYATW1
I will try to pay them back when i'm out of this (or even before) but i can obviously not guarantee this, please keep this in mind. This money will only be used for legal expenses related to this case.
If you have any questions or want to donate by another way (MoneyBookers, Webmoney, Bitcoin, Liberty Reserve, Neteller) feel free to send me a mail (william@william.si) or a PM, or contact me in LET IRC.
Thanks! William
-- --C
"The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them." - Sir William Clayton
-- ~Em
----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE _______________________________________________ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
_______________________________________________ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
WAIT A SECOND HERE!?!? I just read below that this guy runs a large ISP in Austria. I thought his Tor node was hosted with an external provider. If he runs the ISP, why would he not host his own server in house? I suppose there are reasons but I can't think of one, especially if you feel so strongly about this being your right. He talks about moving it to another ISP in the article interviewing him. How about moving it to the large ISP you run? If he runs a large ISP he must not be very good at it if he needs our donations to help him defend himself from a crime he has not been charged with yet. Most of the guys I know that run large ISPs have legal guys available to them. They could also come up with 10000EUR if necessary. What is he going to do with this money if no charges are filed and they give his gear back? If he believes that he is innocent of any crime then he should be confident they won't find anything to charge him with, right?
If convicted i could face up to 6 years in jail, of course i do not want that and i also want to try to set a legal base for running Tor
exit nodes in Austria or even the EU.
Six years in jail for what? They didn't arrest you yet. How do you know what the charges are? The cops must not be too worried about the Tor node if they did not seize it. They seem a lot more interested in his personal storage devices. He seems to have a lot of data at home, not illegal (possibly) but I am wondering what it all might be. The cops have a lot of looking around ahead of them. Seems awful worried for a guy who claims to be innocent. I am wondering why he seems so sure he will be charged that he is building a legal defense fund before being arrested.
Sadly we have nothing like the EFF here that could help me in this case by legal assistance, so i'm on my own and require a good lawyer. Thus i'm accepting donations for my legal expenses which i expect to
be around 5000-10000 EUR.
So you know how much it costs to defend a case with unknown charges and without knowing if you will be arrested yet?!?!?! This whole thing sounds flakier with every new detail. Steven Naslund -----Original Message----- From: Eugen Leitl [mailto:eugen@leitl.org] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 1:25 AM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can. ----- Forwarded message from Asad Haider <asad@asadhaider.co.uk> ----- From: Asad Haider <asad@asadhaider.co.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 19:37:24 +0000 To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can. Reply-To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org William will be posting a statement soon which will explain everything that's happened and give a detailed account of events, along with evidence including pictures showing the aftermath of the raid in his apartment, as well as copies of the warrant and inventory of seized items. He runs a large ISP in Austria and is a well respected member of the community, a lot of us have already sent in donations. His blog is https://rdns.im/ and I'm guessing the statement will be posted on there, I'll send everyone a link once it's finished being written. On 29 November 2012 19:22, Eugen Leitl <eugen@leitl.org> wrote:
----- Forwarded message from Emily Ozols <wingar@team-metro.net> -----
From: Emily Ozols <wingar@team-metro.net> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 01:14:08 +1100 To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can.
Hi,
I gotta ask and I'm sure someone would if I didn't, but how do we know
this guy is legit? He's jumped up on a forum saying, "Hey, police raided me, help. gib mone plz" and failed to provide and reason as to how he's real and not
just making it up.
Maybe if there's a way to know this guy is legit, I'll help out if possible, but until then I'm just going to watch others with caution and I suggest others do as well.
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Chris <caldcv@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not William and a friend pasted a link on IRC to me. I'm going to send him a few bucks because I know how it feels to get blindsided by the police on one random day and your world is turned upside down.
Source: http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/6283/raided-for-running-a-tor-exi t-accepting-donations-for-legal-expenses
From the URL:
Yes, it happened to me now as well - Yesterday i got raided for someone sharing child pornography over one of my Tor exits. I'm good so far, not in jail, but all my computers and hardware have
been confiscated. (20 computers, 100TB+ storage, My Tablets/Consoles/Phones)
If convicted i could face up to 6 years in jail, of course i do not want that and i also want to try to set a legal base for running Tor
exit nodes in Austria or even the EU.
Sadly we have nothing like the EFF here that could help me in this case by legal assistance, so i'm on my own and require a good lawyer. Thus i'm accepting donations for my legal expenses which i expect to
be around 5000-10000 EUR.
If you can i would appreciate if you could donate a bit (every amount helps, even the smallest) either by PayPal (any currency is ok):
https://paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=2Q4LZ NBBD7EH4
Or by Bank Transfer (EUR only please):
Holder: William Weber Bank: EasyBank AG (Vienna, Austria) Account: 20011351213 Bank sort number: 14200 IBAN: AT031420020011351213 BIC: EASYATW1
I will try to pay them back when i'm out of this (or even before) but i can obviously not guarantee this, please keep this in mind. This money will only be used for legal expenses related to this
case.
If you have any questions or want to donate by another way (MoneyBookers, Webmoney, Bitcoin, Liberty Reserve, Neteller) feel free to send me a mail (william@william.si) or a PM, or contact me in LET IRC.
Thanks! William
-- --C
"The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them." - Sir William Clayton
-- ~Em
----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE _______________________________________________ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
_______________________________________________ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
On 11/30/2012 03:30 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
WAIT A SECOND HERE!?!?
I just read below that this guy runs a large ISP in Austria. I thought his Tor node was hosted with an external provider. If he runs the ISP, why would he not host his own server in house? I suppose there are reasons but I can't think of one, especially if you feel so strongly about this being your right.
He talks about moving it to another ISP in the article interviewing him. How about moving it to the large ISP you run?
If he runs a large ISP he must not be very good at it if he needs our donations to help him defend himself from a crime he has not been charged with yet. Most of the guys I know that run large ISPs have legal guys available to them. They could also come up with 10000EUR if necessary.
What is he going to do with this money if no charges are filed and they give his gear back? If he believes that he is innocent of any crime then he should be confident they won't find anything to charge him with, right?
If convicted i could face up to 6 years in jail, of course i do not want that and i also want to try to set a legal base for running Tor exit nodes in Austria or even the EU.
Six years in jail for what? They didn't arrest you yet. How do you know what the charges are? The cops must not be too worried about the Tor node if they did not seize it. They seem a lot more interested in his personal storage devices. He seems to have a lot of data at home, not illegal (possibly) but I am wondering what it all might be. The cops have a lot of looking around ahead of them. Seems awful worried for a guy who claims to be innocent. I am wondering why he seems so sure he will be charged that he is building a legal defense fund before being arrested.
Sadly we have nothing like the EFF here that could help me in this case by legal assistance, so i'm on my own and require a good lawyer. Thus i'm accepting donations for my legal expenses which i expect to be around 5000-10000 EUR. So you know how much it costs to defend a case with unknown charges and without knowing if you will be arrested yet?!?!?!
This whole thing sounds flakier with every new detail.
Steven Naslund
-----Original Message----- From: Eugen Leitl [mailto:eugen@leitl.org] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 1:25 AM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can.
----- Forwarded message from Asad Haider <asad@asadhaider.co.uk> -----
From: Asad Haider <asad@asadhaider.co.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 19:37:24 +0000 To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can. Reply-To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
William will be posting a statement soon which will explain everything that's happened and give a detailed account of events, along with evidence including pictures showing the aftermath of the raid in his apartment, as well as copies of the warrant and inventory of seized items.
He runs a large ISP in Austria and is a well respected member of the community, a lot of us have already sent in donations.
His blog is https://rdns.im/ and I'm guessing the statement will be posted on there, I'll send everyone a link once it's finished being written.
On 29 November 2012 19:22, Eugen Leitl <eugen@leitl.org> wrote:
----- Forwarded message from Emily Ozols <wingar@team-metro.net> -----
From: Emily Ozols <wingar@team-metro.net> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 01:14:08 +1100 To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can.
Hi,
I gotta ask and I'm sure someone would if I didn't, but how do we know this guy is legit? He's jumped up on a forum saying, "Hey, police raided me, help. gib mone plz" and failed to provide and reason as to how he's real and not just making it up.
Maybe if there's a way to know this guy is legit, I'll help out if possible, but until then I'm just going to watch others with caution and I suggest others do as well.
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Chris <caldcv@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not William and a friend pasted a link on IRC to me. I'm going to send him a few bucks because I know how it feels to get blindsided by the police on one random day and your world is turned upside down. Source: http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/6283/raided-for-running-a-tor-exi t-accepting-donations-for-legal-expenses From the URL:
Yes, it happened to me now as well - Yesterday i got raided for someone sharing child pornography over one of my Tor exits. I'm good so far, not in jail, but all my computers and hardware have been confiscated. (20 computers, 100TB+ storage, My Tablets/Consoles/Phones)
If convicted i could face up to 6 years in jail, of course i do not want that and i also want to try to set a legal base for running Tor exit nodes in Austria or even the EU.
Sadly we have nothing like the EFF here that could help me in this case by legal assistance, so i'm on my own and require a good lawyer. Thus i'm accepting donations for my legal expenses which i expect to be around 5000-10000 EUR.
If you can i would appreciate if you could donate a bit (every amount helps, even the smallest) either by PayPal (any currency is ok): https://paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=2Q4LZ NBBD7EH4 Or by Bank Transfer (EUR only please):
Holder: William Weber Bank: EasyBank AG (Vienna, Austria) Account: 20011351213 Bank sort number: 14200 IBAN: AT031420020011351213 BIC: EASYATW1
I will try to pay them back when i'm out of this (or even before) but i can obviously not guarantee this, please keep this in mind. This money will only be used for legal expenses related to this case. If you have any questions or want to donate by another way (MoneyBookers, Webmoney, Bitcoin, Liberty Reserve, Neteller) feel free to send me a mail (william@william.si) or a PM, or contact me in LET IRC.
Thanks! William
-- --C
"The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them." - Sir William Clayton
-- ~Em
----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE _______________________________________________ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
_______________________________________________ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
When is the last time you were arrested, or even in a legal situation which required your attention as a defendant? It seems pretty straight forward, but I can assure you this guy is getting very little sleep and his heart is beating out of his chest. Granted this entire situation is taking place in a legal venue which I have no understanding of (The EU obviously does things differently). I think it was pretty risky to consider running a Tor node, much less being involved in running multiple nodes. This entire situation is beginning to read like a Kim DotCom (or Schmitz for those of us who worked for him at some point) novel, where an outside force directed a local LEA to perform some kind of raid to get someone's attention. This was obviously not a helicopter raid with SWAT, ala RapidShare, but I hope you get the point. This guy is sweating bullets because he has no idea what is going to happen next (in my humble opinion), so his rational thought process and/or even discussing when he will return the funds donated is a pre-mature at best. Just my .02. On 11/30/12 1:30 PM, "Naslund, Steve" <SNaslund@medline.com> wrote:
WAIT A SECOND HERE!?!?
I just read below that this guy runs a large ISP in Austria. I thought his Tor node was hosted with an external provider. If he runs the ISP, why would he not host his own server in house? I suppose there are reasons but I can't think of one, especially if you feel so strongly about this being your right.
He talks about moving it to another ISP in the article interviewing him. How about moving it to the large ISP you run?
If he runs a large ISP he must not be very good at it if he needs our donations to help him defend himself from a crime he has not been charged with yet. Most of the guys I know that run large ISPs have legal guys available to them. They could also come up with 10000EUR if necessary.
What is he going to do with this money if no charges are filed and they give his gear back? If he believes that he is innocent of any crime then he should be confident they won't find anything to charge him with, right?
If convicted i could face up to 6 years in jail, of course i do not want that and i also want to try to set a legal base for running Tor
exit nodes in Austria or even the EU.
Six years in jail for what? They didn't arrest you yet. How do you know what the charges are? The cops must not be too worried about the Tor node if they did not seize it. They seem a lot more interested in his personal storage devices. He seems to have a lot of data at home, not illegal (possibly) but I am wondering what it all might be. The cops have a lot of looking around ahead of them. Seems awful worried for a guy who claims to be innocent. I am wondering why he seems so sure he will be charged that he is building a legal defense fund before being arrested.
Sadly we have nothing like the EFF here that could help me in this case by legal assistance, so i'm on my own and require a good lawyer. Thus i'm accepting donations for my legal expenses which i expect to
be around 5000-10000 EUR.
So you know how much it costs to defend a case with unknown charges and without knowing if you will be arrested yet?!?!?!
This whole thing sounds flakier with every new detail.
Steven Naslund
-----Original Message----- From: Eugen Leitl [mailto:eugen@leitl.org] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 1:25 AM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can.
----- Forwarded message from Asad Haider <asad@asadhaider.co.uk> -----
From: Asad Haider <asad@asadhaider.co.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 19:37:24 +0000 To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can. Reply-To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
William will be posting a statement soon which will explain everything that's happened and give a detailed account of events, along with evidence including pictures showing the aftermath of the raid in his apartment, as well as copies of the warrant and inventory of seized items.
He runs a large ISP in Austria and is a well respected member of the community, a lot of us have already sent in donations.
His blog is https://rdns.im/ and I'm guessing the statement will be posted on there, I'll send everyone a link once it's finished being written.
On 29 November 2012 19:22, Eugen Leitl <eugen@leitl.org> wrote:
----- Forwarded message from Emily Ozols <wingar@team-metro.net> -----
From: Emily Ozols <wingar@team-metro.net> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 01:14:08 +1100 To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can.
Hi,
I gotta ask and I'm sure someone would if I didn't, but how do we know
this guy is legit? He's jumped up on a forum saying, "Hey, police raided me, help. gib mone plz" and failed to provide and reason as to how he's real and not
just making it up.
Maybe if there's a way to know this guy is legit, I'll help out if possible, but until then I'm just going to watch others with caution and I suggest others do as well.
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Chris <caldcv@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not William and a friend pasted a link on IRC to me. I'm going to send him a few bucks because I know how it feels to get blindsided by the police on one random day and your world is turned upside down.
Source: http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/6283/raided-for-running-a-tor-exi t-accepting-donations-for-legal-expenses
From the URL:
Yes, it happened to me now as well - Yesterday i got raided for someone sharing child pornography over one of my Tor exits. I'm good so far, not in jail, but all my computers and hardware have
been confiscated. (20 computers, 100TB+ storage, My Tablets/Consoles/Phones)
If convicted i could face up to 6 years in jail, of course i do not want that and i also want to try to set a legal base for running Tor
exit nodes in Austria or even the EU.
Sadly we have nothing like the EFF here that could help me in this case by legal assistance, so i'm on my own and require a good lawyer. Thus i'm accepting donations for my legal expenses which i expect to
be around 5000-10000 EUR.
If you can i would appreciate if you could donate a bit (every amount helps, even the smallest) either by PayPal (any currency is ok):
https://paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=2Q4LZ NBBD7EH4
Or by Bank Transfer (EUR only please):
Holder: William Weber Bank: EasyBank AG (Vienna, Austria) Account: 20011351213 Bank sort number: 14200 IBAN: AT031420020011351213 BIC: EASYATW1
I will try to pay them back when i'm out of this (or even before) but i can obviously not guarantee this, please keep this in mind. This money will only be used for legal expenses related to this
case.
If you have any questions or want to donate by another way (MoneyBookers, Webmoney, Bitcoin, Liberty Reserve, Neteller) feel free to send me a mail (william@william.si) or a PM, or contact me in LET IRC.
Thanks! William
-- --C
"The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them." - Sir William Clayton
-- ~Em
----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE _______________________________________________ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
_______________________________________________ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
Well, in that case.... I am really worried that the cops might charge me with a crime. They took my computers and are looking at them. I did not do anything wrong but just in case they decide to charge me with a crime, please send me some money. Thanks, Steven Naslund -----Original Message----- From: Warren Bailey [mailto:wbailey@satelliteintelligencegroup.com] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:12 PM To: Naslund, Steve; NANOG list Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can. When is the last time you were arrested, or even in a legal situation which required your attention as a defendant? It seems pretty straight forward, but I can assure you this guy is getting very little sleep and his heart is beating out of his chest. Granted this entire situation is taking place in a legal venue which I have no understanding of (The EU obviously does things differently). I think it was pretty risky to consider running a Tor node, much less being involved in running multiple nodes. This entire situation is beginning to read like a Kim DotCom (or Schmitz for those of us who worked for him at some point) novel, where an outside force directed a local LEA to perform some kind of raid to get someone's attention. This was obviously not a helicopter raid with SWAT, ala RapidShare, but I hope you get the point. This guy is sweating bullets because he has no idea what is going to happen next (in my humble opinion), so his rational thought process and/or even discussing when he will return the funds donated is a pre-mature at best. Just my .02. On 11/30/12 1:30 PM, "Naslund, Steve" <SNaslund@medline.com> wrote:
WAIT A SECOND HERE!?!?
I just read below that this guy runs a large ISP in Austria. I thought
his Tor node was hosted with an external provider. If he runs the ISP,
why would he not host his own server in house? I suppose there are reasons but I can't think of one, especially if you feel so strongly about this being your right.
He talks about moving it to another ISP in the article interviewing him. How about moving it to the large ISP you run?
If he runs a large ISP he must not be very good at it if he needs our donations to help him defend himself from a crime he has not been charged with yet. Most of the guys I know that run large ISPs have legal guys available to them. They could also come up with 10000EUR if
necessary.
What is he going to do with this money if no charges are filed and they
give his gear back? If he believes that he is innocent of any crime then he should be confident they won't find anything to charge him with, right?
If convicted i could face up to 6 years in jail, of course i do not
want that and i also want to try to set a legal base for running Tor
exit nodes in Austria or even the EU.
Six years in jail for what? They didn't arrest you yet. How do you know what the charges are? The cops must not be too worried about the Tor node if they did not seize it. They seem a lot more interested in his personal storage devices. He seems to have a lot of data at home, not illegal (possibly) but I am wondering what it all might be. The cops have a lot of looking around ahead of them. Seems awful worried for a guy who claims to be innocent. I am wondering why he seems so sure he will be charged that he is building a legal defense fund before
being arrested.
Sadly we have nothing like the EFF here that could help me in this case by legal assistance, so i'm on my own and require a good lawyer. Thus i'm accepting donations for my legal expenses which i expect to
be around 5000-10000 EUR.
So you know how much it costs to defend a case with unknown charges and
without knowing if you will be arrested yet?!?!?!
This whole thing sounds flakier with every new detail.
Steven Naslund
-----Original Message----- From: Eugen Leitl [mailto:eugen@leitl.org] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 1:25 AM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can.
----- Forwarded message from Asad Haider <asad@asadhaider.co.uk> -----
From: Asad Haider <asad@asadhaider.co.uk> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 19:37:24 +0000 To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can. Reply-To: tor-talk@lists.torproject.org
William will be posting a statement soon which will explain everything that's happened and give a detailed account of events, along with evidence including pictures showing the aftermath of the raid in his apartment, as well as copies of the warrant and inventory of seized items.
He runs a large ISP in Austria and is a well respected member of the community, a lot of us have already sent in donations.
His blog is https://rdns.im/ and I'm guessing the statement will be posted on there, I'll send everyone a link once it's finished being written.
On 29 November 2012 19:22, Eugen Leitl <eugen@leitl.org> wrote:
----- Forwarded message from Emily Ozols <wingar@team-metro.net> -----
From: Emily Ozols <wingar@team-metro.net> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 01:14:08 +1100 To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can.
Hi,
I gotta ask and I'm sure someone would if I didn't, but how do we know
this guy is legit? He's jumped up on a forum saying, "Hey, police raided me, help. gib mone plz" and failed to provide and reason as to how he's real and not
just making it up.
Maybe if there's a way to know this guy is legit, I'll help out if possible, but until then I'm just going to watch others with caution and I suggest others do as well.
On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 12:04 AM, Chris <caldcv@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not William and a friend pasted a link on IRC to me. I'm going to send him a few bucks because I know how it feels to get blindsided by the police on one random day and your world is turned upside down.
Source: http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/6283/raided-for-running-a-tor-ex i t-accepting-donations-for-legal-expenses
From the URL:
Yes, it happened to me now as well - Yesterday i got raided for someone sharing child pornography over one of my Tor exits. I'm good so far, not in jail, but all my computers and hardware have
been confiscated. (20 computers, 100TB+ storage, My Tablets/Consoles/Phones)
If convicted i could face up to 6 years in jail, of course i do not
want that and i also want to try to set a legal base for running Tor
exit nodes in Austria or even the EU.
Sadly we have nothing like the EFF here that could help me in this case by legal assistance, so i'm on my own and require a good lawyer. Thus i'm accepting donations for my legal expenses which i expect to
be around 5000-10000 EUR.
If you can i would appreciate if you could donate a bit (every amount helps, even the smallest) either by PayPal (any currency is ok):
https://paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=2Q4L Z NBBD7EH4
Or by Bank Transfer (EUR only please):
Holder: William Weber Bank: EasyBank AG (Vienna, Austria) Account: 20011351213 Bank sort number: 14200 IBAN: AT031420020011351213 BIC: EASYATW1
I will try to pay them back when i'm out of this (or even before) but i can obviously not guarantee this, please keep this in mind. This money will only be used for legal expenses related to this
case.
If you have any questions or want to donate by another way (MoneyBookers, Webmoney, Bitcoin, Liberty Reserve, Neteller) feel free to send me a mail (william@william.si) or a PM, or contact me in LET IRC.
Thanks! William
-- --C
"The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them." - Sir William Clayton
-- ~Em
----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE _______________________________________________ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
_______________________________________________ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
----- End forwarded message ----- -- Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org ______________________________________________________________ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
On 11/30/12 5:15 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
Well, in that case.... I am really worried that the cops might charge me with a crime. They took my computers and are looking at them. I did not do anything wrong but just in case they decide to charge me with a crime, please send me some money.
As well you could be, because you appear to have the same name as a registered sex offender: http://www.sexoffenderin.com/reg110698/steven_w_naslundmugshot.htm On 11/29/12 6:39 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote: # As a long time service provider ... # # my many years of experience in engineering ARPANET, MILNET, and the # Internet I would have to guess that most Tor servers are used for no # good much more than they are protecting anyone's privacy. I'm surprised that medline.com is offering network access as an ISP? Admittedly, you began posting to NANOG in 2002 as: Network Engineering Manager Hosting.com - Chicago While I was involved in engineering NSFnet and the Internet and was an "original" member of NANOG, but I don't remember you. Of course, I'm notoriously bad with names. OTOH, I have met, remember, and greatly respect the Tor engineers.
On Nov 30, 2012, at 7:20 PM, William Allen Simpson wrote:
As well you could be, because you appear to have the same name as a registered sex offender:
Hey, that's a fun game: http://www.sexoffenderin.com/reg77161/william_a_simpsonmugshot.htm
Already dealt with that at an airport once. One look at my picture and his cleared that right up and they put a note in the entry system that says I am not this guy. High tech huh. Sometimes the system works. By the way we have different middle initials and different SSNs. I have an original DDN TAC Access card, installed BBN nodes for the US Air Force, and worked for quite a few ISPs, and now work for large global corporation. Sorry I did not meet you at NSF net, I worked more on the DoD side of things. Steven Naslund -----Original Message----- From: William Allen Simpson [mailto:william.allen.simpson@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 9:20 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can. On 11/30/12 5:15 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
Well, in that case.... I am really worried that the cops might charge
me with a crime. They took my computers and are looking at them. I did not do anything wrong but just in case they decide to charge me with a crime, please send me some money.
As well you could be, because you appear to have the same name as a registered sex offender: http://www.sexoffenderin.com/reg110698/steven_w_naslundmugshot.htm On 11/29/12 6:39 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote: # As a long time service provider ... # # my many years of experience in engineering ARPANET, MILNET, and the # Internet I would have to guess that most Tor servers are used for no # good much more than they are protecting anyone's privacy. I'm surprised that medline.com is offering network access as an ISP? Admittedly, you began posting to NANOG in 2002 as: Network Engineering Manager Hosting.com - Chicago While I was involved in engineering NSFnet and the Internet and was an "original" member of NANOG, but I don't remember you. Of course, I'm notoriously bad with names. OTOH, I have met, remember, and greatly respect the Tor engineers.
A lot of guys have the same names, I did not assume that you are related to Jessica Simpson or Bart Simpson for that matter. Maybe I did not see you at NSFnet because I was working with DDN which was established a full two years before NSFnet. So what? Does the fact that I worked on the precursor to the Internet and NSFnet make me more credible than you? I was not aware that in order to be credible on NANOG, we had to meet you at some point. They did not tell me that at the Pentagon or when I got my engineering degrees. I also have great respect for the Tor engineers, it was great work. I just don't have respect for the idiots that sometimes use Tor. I also have great respect for the guys who wrote sendmail and don't blame them every time I get spam. What I don't have any respect for is the "I was here first (you weren't)", name dropping (I know the Tor guys), know it all (that does not know that a lot of what people do does not show up in google). For those of you who care about credentials. I have been working on the Internet and its predecessors since 1985. Of course that has absolutely nothing to do with the credibility of what I say because time does not always equal knowledge. As soon as you assume you are smarter than everyone else in the room you can be assured that you are not. Steven Naslund -----Original Message----- From: William Allen Simpson [mailto:william.allen.simpson@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 9:20 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: [tor-talk] William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can. On 11/30/12 5:15 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote:
Well, in that case.... I am really worried that the cops might charge
me with a crime. They took my computers and are looking at them. I did not do anything wrong but just in case they decide to charge me with a crime, please send me some money.
As well you could be, because you appear to have the same name as a registered sex offender: http://www.sexoffenderin.com/reg110698/steven_w_naslundmugshot.htm On 11/29/12 6:39 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote: # As a long time service provider ... # # my many years of experience in engineering ARPANET, MILNET, and the # Internet I would have to guess that most Tor servers are used for no # good much more than they are protecting anyone's privacy. I'm surprised that medline.com is offering network access as an ISP? Admittedly, you began posting to NANOG in 2002 as: Network Engineering Manager Hosting.com - Chicago While I was involved in engineering NSFnet and the Internet and was an "original" member of NANOG, but I don't remember you. Of course, I'm notoriously bad with names. OTOH, I have met, remember, and greatly respect the Tor engineers.
am Freitag, 30. November 2012 um 22:30 schrieb NANOG list:
WAIT A SECOND HERE!?!?
I just read below that this guy runs a large ISP in Austria.
The info from tor-talk was somewhat misleading. William Weber is not the owner of the ISP. He works there as an administrator. So he runs it (maybe) technically, not economically. See eg: http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/2641/we-colo-your-rpi-for-free where his boss "ExPl0ReR" weighs in. And "large" is quite relative. This info http://edis.businesscard.at/ says they have 13 employees. It may be outdated though. Regards, Jutta
participants (8)
-
Eugen Leitl -
James Downs -
Jutta Zalud -
Naslund, Steve -
Randy Bush -
Sam Tetherow -
Warren Bailey -
William Allen Simpson