Dear Nanog, I have a class "B" IP block of addresses (IP 143.170.0.0 - 143.170.255.255) for sale / lease and two questions for the group: 1) Are there any resources for buying / selling IP address? 2) Is anyone in the group interested in making an offer? I understand ARIN has made it difficult to sell IP addresses. We have fixed this problem by creating a corporation whose only asset is the block of IP addresses. Sincerely, John Immel isp@jimmel.com 617-869-8326 _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Just out of curiosity, how much does a Class B go for on the open market? What about a Class C? or a /23 CIDR? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Immel" <john_immel@hotmail.com> To: <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 09:49 Subject: Class "B" IP BLOCK
Dear Nanog,
I have a class "B" IP block of addresses (IP 143.170.0.0 - 143.170.255.255) for sale / lease and two questions for the group:
1) Are there any resources for buying / selling IP address?
2) Is anyone in the group interested in making an offer?
I understand ARIN has made it difficult to sell IP addresses. We have fixed this problem by creating a corporation whose only asset is the block of IP addresses.
Sincerely, John Immel
isp@jimmel.com 617-869-8326
_________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, John Immel wrote:
I have a class "B" IP block of addresses (IP 143.170.0.0 - 143.170.255.255) for sale / lease and two questions for the group:
1) Are there any resources for buying / selling IP address?
Ebay? I'm thinking nanog isnt a good place for 'buy n sell' (altho if anyone wants to buy a house in central England feel free to put in an offer... ;)
2) Is anyone in the group interested in making an offer?
I understand ARIN has made it difficult to sell IP addresses. We have fixed
Well, the issue is they are not assets, how do you sell something you dont own? If you receive money, how do you transfer the asset? Do you have some kind of bond certificate or something??!
this problem by creating a corporation whose only asset is the block of IP addresses.
Oh, how do you demonstrate you possess this asset and its value to your accountant? Steve
Sincerely, John Immel
isp@jimmel.com 617-869-8326
_________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, John Immel wrote:
I have a class "B" IP block of addresses (IP 143.170.0.0 - 143.170.255.255) for sale / lease...
I understand ARIN has made it difficult to sell IP addresses. We have fixed this problem by creating a corporation whose only asset is the block of IP addresses.
On Tue, Apr 29, 2003 at 04:25:07PM +0100, Stephen J. Wilcox wrote:
Oh, how do you demonstrate you possess this asset and its value to your accountant?
By assertion, of course! It is entertaining to speculate what relation Mr. Immel has with GSG or WVNET. -ron pop1-ash#sho ip bgp 143.170.0.0 255.255.0.0 long Network Next Hop Metric LocPrf Weight Path *> 143.170.0.0 209.244.2.159 0 3356 1 13661 7925 i OrgName: General Systems Group, Inc. OrgID: GSG-7 Address: 16 Glen Road City: Salem StateProv: NH PostalCode: 03079-1724 Country: US NetRange: 143.170.0.0 - 143.170.255.255 CIDR: 143.170.0.0/16 NetName: ISDN NetHandle: NET-143-170-0-0-1 Parent: NET-143-0-0-0-0 NetType: Direct Assignment Comment: RegDate: 1990-09-26 Updated: 1999-09-01 TechHandle: MBH2-ARIN TechName: Harrison, Margaret B. TechPhone: +1-603-893-1000 TechEmail: mbh@gsg.com OrgName: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing OrgID: WVNET Address: 837 Chestnut Ridge Road City: Morgantown StateProv: WV PostalCode: 26505 Country: US ASNumber: 7925 ASName: WVNET ASHandle: AS7925 Comment: RegDate: 1997-02-14 Updated: 1997-02-14 TechHandle: GD633-ARIN TechName: DeVall, Greg TechPhone: +1-304-293-5192 TechEmail: u035e@wvnvm.wvnet.edu
Stephen J. Wilcox wrote:
Well, the issue is they are not assets, how do you sell something you dont own? If you receive money, how do you transfer the asset? Do you have some kind of bond certificate or something??!
It can't be transfered. The netblock is allocated to who ARIN says it is. If they do decide to do recalls, just posting the block in this forum is enough to initiate a utilization check. Besides, why would someone pay for something they can get for free? Show need, and it is given. I'm sure someone would love a /16 to brag about, but good luck getting ARIN to alter who owns it. -jack
It can't be transfered. The netblock is allocated to who ARIN says it is. If they do decide to do recalls, just posting the block in this forum is enough to initiate a utilization check. Besides, why would someone pay for something they can get for free? Show need, and it is given. I'm sure someone would love a /16 to brag about, but good luck getting ARIN to alter who owns it.
I received this from the guy selling the /16: Hope this helps. We've received bids today up to $175K, and if you are interested expect to close when bidding reaches $250K. My phone number is xxx-xxx-xxxx. -------------------- For $175,000 , wouldn't it make more sense to spend $175k on routers, network connectivity, and other equipment to create an actual business for the purpose of justifying a /16 request? At least that way, ARIN can't arbitrarily decide to "steal" your $175k investment by repossessing unused IP space. I wonder if that $175k should be wired to a bank account in Nauru... <:-)
Thus spake "Stephen J. Wilcox" <steve@telecomplete.co.uk>
Well, the issue is they are not assets, how do you sell something you dont own? If you receive money, how do you transfer the asset? Do you have some kind of bond certificate or something??!
You create a subsidiary and transfer the allocation to it. You then sell the subsidiary to another party, who then transfers the allocation to its new parent and dissolves. Of course, getting ARIN to change the "owner" is notoriously difficult even for legitimate changes. If the DNS servers for the in-addr zones happen to be in that block, you really don't even need to involve ARIN at all unless the buyer's ISP cares enough to look at the allocation.
Oh, how do you demonstrate you possess this asset and its value to\ your accountant?
You claim a value and your auditor agrees. See also: Enron Seriously, that's standard practice for unmarketable or volatile items. S Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, Stephen Sprunk wrote:
Thus spake "Stephen J. Wilcox" <steve@telecomplete.co.uk>
Oh, how do you demonstrate you possess this asset and its value to\ your accountant?
You claim a value and your auditor agrees. See also: Enron
Seriously, that's standard practice for unmarketable or volatile items.
I recall being told around 1995 of a company that "owned" a /8 and as such was valued at around $5 million more than it's other (apparantly few) assets indicated. Not sure who it was but a quick check of the list shows Interop (45/8) as being an obvious candidate. Since Key3Media (which owns Interop, Comdex etc) appears to be in Chapter 11 it might be possible to pick up the the /8 fairly cheaply. A quick look through their recent 10-K filing doesn't show it listed in the assets ( total $129 million) however. -- Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: simon.lyall@ihug.co.nz Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: simon@darkmere.gen.nz Ihug Ltd, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz
On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Simon Lyall wrote:
I recall being told around 1995 of a company that "owned" a /8 and as such was valued at around $5 million more than it's other (apparantly few) assets indicated. Not sure who it was but a quick check of the list shows Interop (45/8) as being an obvious candidate.
Unlikely considering I'm announcing it right now here at N+I Vegas. Of course I don't work for Key3Media and therefore I don't represent what the company may or may not do. -- Brandon Ross AIM: BrandonNR VP Operations ICQ: 2269442 Sockeye Networks
PSI was sold for 10 million and it had quite a few more stuff then just /8, just customers alone were 10M in yearly revenue, plus to that equipment, peering agreements (cogent was after this the most I'd guess), fiber, etc. In fact I doubt if 38/8 played any significant role in decision by cogent to buy psi or if it was considered important enough asset to actually be part when coming with total amount. As for /16 I would be seriously surprised if the price for it is at 250k as has been mentioned. If somebody really needs those ips and can justify that, they can go to arin and /16 would be $5000/year. Since the ip block of that "for sale /16" that initiated this thread was out of legacy ip space, there are no maintanance fee charges on it and you save that $5000/year. But since most ISPs are valued at one year of their revenue, similar should apply here, so value of the company that only has /16 (out of legacy space) would be $5,000 - $10,000 and nowhere close to reported 200k - I would expect that message with that price has been a big big lie to raise initial bid and get rid of those who were offering 10k so leaving only highier then normal bidders. On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Brandon Ross wrote:
On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Simon Lyall wrote:
I recall being told around 1995 of a company that "owned" a /8 and as such was valued at around $5 million more than it's other (apparantly few) assets indicated. Not sure who it was but a quick check of the list shows Interop (45/8) as being an obvious candidate.
Unlikely considering I'm announcing it right now here at N+I Vegas. Of course I don't work for Key3Media and therefore I don't represent what the company may or may not do.
I'll give you $20 for it. -j
I have a class "B" IP block of addresses (IP 143.170.0.0 - 143.170.255.255) for sale / lease and two questions for the group:
1) Are there any resources for buying / selling IP address?
2) Is anyone in the group interested in making an offer?
I understand ARIN has made it difficult to sell IP addresses. We have fixed this problem by creating a corporation whose only asset is the block of IP addresses.
On Saturday, May 3, 2003, at 05:37 PM, <bdragon@gweep.net> wrote:
Dear Nanog,
I have a class "B" IP block of addresses (IP 143.170.0.0 - 143.170.255.255) for sale / lease and two questions for the group:
I'ld like to propose adding 143.170.0.0/16 to Team Cymru's bogon filter.
Is there a new RFC we should be aware of ? -- Matt Levine @Home: matt@deliver3.com @Work: matt@eldosales.com ICQ : 17080004 AIM : exile GPG : http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0D04CF "The Trouble with doing anything right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was." -BIX
On Saturday, May 3, 2003, at 05:37 PM, <bdragon@gweep.net> wrote:
Dear Nanog,
I have a class "B" IP block of addresses (IP 143.170.0.0 - 143.170.255.255) for sale / lease and two questions for the group:
I'ld like to propose adding 143.170.0.0/16 to Team Cymru's bogon filter.
Is there a new RFC we should be aware of ?
Undoubtedly
On Saturday, May 3, 2003, at 05:37 PM, <bdragon@gweep.net> wrote:
Dear Nanog,
I have a class "B" IP block of addresses (IP 143.170.0.0 - 143.170.255.255) for sale / lease and two questions for the group:
I'ld like to propose adding 143.170.0.0/16 to Team Cymru's bogon filter.
Is there a new RFC we should be aware of ?
Hmm, while we're at it, what relationship do you have with Erie Forge and Steel, other than squatting on some of their address space. Perhaps 146.20.0.0/16 is another example of hijacked address space. I wonder if they are even aware they have address space... The only value in a central registry is the tacit agreement networks provide to police themselves in accordance with said registry. Agreeing to gut and maim those who seek to abuse it.
On Saturday, May 3, 2003, at 06:21 PM, <bdragon@gweep.net> wrote:
On Saturday, May 3, 2003, at 05:37 PM, <bdragon@gweep.net> wrote:
Dear Nanog,
I have a class "B" IP block of addresses (IP 143.170.0.0 - 143.170.255.255) for sale / lease and two questions for the group:
I'ld like to propose adding 143.170.0.0/16 to Team Cymru's bogon filter.
Is there a new RFC we should be aware of ?
Hmm, while we're at it, what relationship do you have with Erie Forge and Steel, other than squatting on some of their address space.
Perhaps 146.20.0.0/16 is another example of hijacked address space.
I wonder if they are even aware they have address space...
The only value in a central registry is the tacit agreement networks provide to police themselves in accordance with said registry. Agreeing to gut and maim those who seek to abuse it.
Which is all well and good, and while I wont try to put words in anybody from Cymru's mouth, they would appear to be making a list of IP addresses which have not been allocated to a RIR, I would think policing arin or anybody else's allocations is outside the scope of what they'd like to do. -- Matt Levine @Home: matt@deliver3.com @Work: matt@eldosales.com ICQ : 17080004 AIM : exile GPG : http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0D04CF "The Trouble with doing anything right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was." -BIX
Hi, NANOGers. ] of IP addresses which have not been allocated to a RIR, I would think ] policing arin or anybody else's allocations is outside the scope of ] what they'd like to do. Actually we do hope to eventually make available bogon lists based on the unallocated prefixes within the RIR allocations. This will be a separate list due to the more dynamic nature of it. It will use a different community on the bogon route-server as well. I don't have an ETA for that portion of the list, however. Thanks, Rob, for Team Cymru. -- Rob Thomas http://www.cymru.com ASSERT(coffee != empty);
participants (14)
-
bdragon＠gweep.net -
Brandon Ross -
Eric Kuhnke -
Jack Bates -
John Immel -
John Palmer -
Jonathan Disher -
Matt Levine -
Rob Thomas -
Ron da Silva -
Simon Lyall -
Stephen J. Wilcox -
Stephen Sprunk -
william＠elan.net