Does anyone have any info on if MAE-EAST allows collocation of a 7507 now or is it still stated that the size has to be about the size of a 7010. Please return email direct to tstroup@fibernet.net Thanks. Todd R. Stroup Fiber Network Solutions, Inc.
Does anyone have any info on if MAE-EAST allows collocation of a 7507 now or is it still stated that the size has to be about the size of a 7010.
Please return email direct to tstroup@fibernet.net
Thanks.
Todd R. Stroup Fiber Network Solutions, Inc.
The 7507 is the same size as the 7010, give or take a few cm, I believe. And unlike Pennsauken, many at MAE-East have full racks available to them. In fact, Netscape has a bunch of purple beasties there (SGIs) last I looked... Avi
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Avi Freedman wrote:
Does anyone have any info on if MAE-EAST allows collocation of a 7507 now or is it still stated that the size has to be about the size of a 7010.
Please return email direct to tstroup@fibernet.net
Thanks.
Todd R. Stroup Fiber Network Solutions, Inc.
The 7507 is the same size as the 7010, give or take a few cm, I believe. And unlike Pennsauken, many at MAE-East have full racks available to them. In fact, Netscape has a bunch of purple beasties there (SGIs) last I looked...
Not height wise.. You could fit two 7010s in place of a 7507. But you say one can get as much rack space as needed? That's all I needed to hear. Thanks.
Avi
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Avi Freedman wrote:
Does anyone have any info on if MAE-EAST allows collocation of a 7507 now or is it still stated that the size has to be about the size of a 7010.
Please return email direct to tstroup@fibernet.net
Thanks.
Todd R. Stroup Fiber Network Solutions, Inc.
The 7507 is the same size as the 7010, give or take a few cm, I believe. And unlike Pennsauken, many at MAE-East have full racks available to them. In fact, Netscape has a bunch of purple beasties there (SGIs) last I looked...
Not height wise.. You could fit two 7010s in place of a 7507. But you say one can get as much rack space as needed? That's all I needed to hear. Thanks.
Sorry about that. Yes, of course, the 7010 is the same size as the 7505. Must have had cognitive dissonance. But yes, *when racks are available*, it's generally whole-rack-rental from MFS at Gallows. The other approach is to extend MAE-East to you in the NOVA area by buying a package which includes a dedicated or shared FDDI port, two Netedges, and a T3 in between the Netedges. My guess is that it's 50-50 or maybe 60-40 in favor of the Netedge approach, but collocating is definitely a more stable way to connect. Avi
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Avi Freedman wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Avi Freedman wrote: The other approach is to extend MAE-East to you in the NOVA area by buying a package which includes a dedicated or shared FDDI port, two Netedges, and a T3 in between the Netedges. My guess is that it's 50-50 or maybe 60-40 in favor of the Netedge approach, but collocating is definitely a more stable way to connect.
Why would you inflict Netedges on yourself by choice? I thought maschistic tendencies should be displayed only behind closed doors, not in designing networks... -dorian
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Avi Freedman wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Avi Freedman wrote: The other approach is to extend MAE-East to you in the NOVA area by buying a package which includes a dedicated or shared FDDI port, two Netedges, and a T3 in between the Netedges. My guess is that it's 50-50 or maybe 60-40 in favor of the Netedge approach, but collocating is definitely a more stable way to connect.
Why would you inflict Netedges on yourself by choice? I thought maschistic tendencies should be displayed only behind closed doors, not in designing networks...
-dorian
People do it as a cost-saving move - or as a 1st step when rack space becomes unavailable at MAE-East, as it has for various multi-month periods in the past. Avi
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Avi Freedman wrote:
Why would you inflict Netedges on yourself by choice? I thought maschistic tendencies should be displayed only behind closed doors, not in designing networks...
-dorian
People do it as a cost-saving move - or as a 1st step when rack space becomes unavailable at MAE-East, as it has for various multi-month periods in the past.
Yes, we have people with MAE connections in our colos, and we have had no problems. The biggest thing is MFS is hard to get any space out of. Nathan Stratton President, NetRail,Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Phone (888)NetRail NetRail, Inc. Fax (703)534-5033 2007 N. 15 St. Suite 5 WWW http://www.netrail.net/ Arlington, VA 22201 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Matthew 6:34
The Cisco 7507 is MUCH larger than the 7010 or 7505. The Sprint NAP in Pennsauken now supports the collocation of 7507 or similar-sized routers -- with support for redundant DC power. We've engineered new racks that provide space and DC AND AC power for 7507 routers and up to three (3) DS3 CSU/DSUs, a terminal server and modems. Steve ******************************************************************************** Phone: 1.816.854.2113 Fax: 1.816.854.2201 Sprint Pager: 1.800.724.3329, PIN 398.6644 Outside U.S.: +1.619.279.8495, PIN 398.6644 Text Page via Internet: 3986644@pagenet.net or via WWW at: http://www.sprint.com/home/custserv/pager/sendpage.html ******************************************************************************** On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Avi Freedman wrote:
Does anyone have any info on if MAE-EAST allows collocation of a 7507 now or is it still stated that the size has to be about the size of a 7010.
Please return email direct to tstroup@fibernet.net
Thanks.
Todd R. Stroup Fiber Network Solutions, Inc.
The 7507 is the same size as the 7010, give or take a few cm, I believe. And unlike Pennsauken, many at MAE-East have full racks available to them. In fact, Netscape has a bunch of purple beasties there (SGIs) last I looked...
Avi
This may be the restriction that I recall reading about.. Thanks. BTW I needed this information ASAP for a meeting I was in.. I figured why not ask the list since everyone (like Avi :))provides such a quick response time. Thanks for all of the replies, I didn't mean for this to turn into a mass discussion. Oh well.. T..S On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Steven Schnell wrote:
The Cisco 7507 is MUCH larger than the 7010 or 7505. The Sprint NAP in Pennsauken now supports the collocation of 7507 or similar-sized routers -- with support for redundant DC power. We've engineered new racks that provide space and DC AND AC power for 7507 routers and up to three (3) DS3 CSU/DSUs, a terminal server and modems.
Steve
********************************************************************************
Phone: 1.816.854.2113 Fax: 1.816.854.2201
Sprint Pager: 1.800.724.3329, PIN 398.6644 Outside U.S.: +1.619.279.8495, PIN 398.6644
Text Page via Internet: 3986644@pagenet.net
or via WWW at:
http://www.sprint.com/home/custserv/pager/sendpage.html
********************************************************************************
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Avi Freedman wrote:
Does anyone have any info on if MAE-EAST allows collocation of a 7507 now or is it still stated that the size has to be about the size of a 7010.
Please return email direct to tstroup@fibernet.net
Thanks.
Todd R. Stroup Fiber Network Solutions, Inc.
The 7507 is the same size as the 7010, give or take a few cm, I believe. And unlike Pennsauken, many at MAE-East have full racks available to them. In fact, Netscape has a bunch of purple beasties there (SGIs) last I looked...
Avi
The "standard" MAE product comes with 1/2 rack of colocation space, and a specific amount of 110VAC or -48VDC power, which I can't recall at the moment. A Cisco 7507 and CSU/DSU will easily fit in that amount of space. More space and/or power are available at additional cost. You'll need to check with an MFS sales rep for pricing, and to see what the power restrictions are. Steve Feldman MFS Worldcom (or whoever we are this week!) On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Todd R. Stroup wrote:
Does anyone have any info on if MAE-EAST allows collocation of a 7507 now or is it still stated that the size has to be about the size of a 7010.
Please return email direct to tstroup@fibernet.net
Thanks.
Todd R. Stroup Fiber Network Solutions, Inc.
There are lots of 7513's so I doubt a 7507 would be a problem - the only restriction on equipment is no computers on the MAE EAST LAN for security reasons. Given the ability to bridge MAE EAST I'm not sure how that can be enforced. And Netscape has some mighty big SGI's promintently displayed as you walk in. Oh and another restrictiuon should you ever need it -- to run a $5 piece of ethernet cable 10' from one rack to another (assuming the two racks are diffrent companies eg. a cross connect) is $2000/month. .stb On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Todd R. Stroup wrote:
Does anyone have any info on if MAE-EAST allows collocation of a 7507 now or is it still stated that the size has to be about the size of a 7010.
Please return email direct to tstroup@fibernet.net
Thanks.
Todd R. Stroup Fiber Network Solutions, Inc.
There are lots of 7513's so I doubt a 7507 would be a problem - the only restriction on equipment is no computers on the MAE EAST LAN for security reasons. Given the ability to bridge MAE EAST I'm not sure how that can be enforced. And Netscape has some mighty big SGI's promintently displayed as you walk in. Oh and another restrictiuon should you ever need it -- to run a $5 piece of ethernet cable 10' from one rack to another (assuming the two racks are diffrent companies eg. a cross connect) is $2000/month.
.stb
Well, you can tell by MAC addresses or by broadcast-pings what IP addresses are hooked up to the bridged fabric at any FDDI/ethernet/bridged exchange... I think it's abused more @ MAE-West than @ MAE-East. Avi
Hi, Stephen Balbach wrote:
And Netscape has some mighty big SGI's promintently displayed as you walk in.
Netscape's web servers? Interesting, does Netscape now host their gigahit-per-day web servers outside the West Coast (in-house or at ISI.NET?) I was wondering if Netscape now "redirects" web browsers to their "nearest" server? This would be cool if it would set a precedent; hopefully they and other high-volume providers would set up mirrors *outside* the US so that folks wouldn't spend their bandwidth pulling their (uncacheable) pages in. If Netscape is indeed doing this, do HTTP traffic analysis and the business case show that selecting different locations for web servers is "worth it"? Regards, -- miguel a.l. paraz <map@iphil.net> | pgp key id: 0x43F0D011 iphil communications, makati city, philippines | <http://www.iphil.net>
BTW: I did not mean to imply that the machines were directly connected to the FDDI/ethernet switched fabric. I really wasn't looking at their backs; I tend to get somewhat distraced by lots of Criscos when at major XPs. Avi
Hi,
Stephen Balbach wrote:
And Netscape has some mighty big SGI's promintently displayed as you walk in.
Netscape's web servers? Interesting, does Netscape now host their gigahit-per-day web servers outside the West Coast (in-house or at ISI.NET?) I was wondering if Netscape now "redirects" web browsers to their "nearest" server? This would be cool if it would set a precedent; hopefully they and other high-volume providers would set up mirrors *outside* the US so that folks wouldn't spend their bandwidth pulling their (uncacheable) pages in.
If Netscape is indeed doing this, do HTTP traffic analysis and the business case show that selecting different locations for web servers is "worth it"?
Regards,
miguel a.l. paraz <map@iphil.net> | pgp key id: 0x43F0D011
And Netscape has some mighty big SGI's promintently displayed as you walk in.
Netscape's web servers? Interesting, does Netscape now host their gigahit-per-day web servers outside the West Coast (in-house or at ISI.NET?) I was wondering if Netscape now "redirects" web browsers to their "nearest" server? This would be cool if it would set a precedent;
I thought http still went back to the west coast and it was just ftp services that were hosted out here on the east coast..? --- Jason Vagner <jlv@sig.bsh.com> Resist KRAP and GAK. Police States Are Bad. "All that one can give is what is going to happen, which may have little to do with a present that you can grasp." - Avital Ronell.
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Stephen Balbach wrote:
There are lots of 7513's so I doubt a 7507 would be a problem - the only restriction on equipment is no computers on the MAE EAST LAN for security reasons. Given the ability to bridge MAE EAST I'm not sure how that can be enforced. And Netscape has some mighty big SGI's promintently displayed as you walk in.
Last I'd heard, Netscape's boxen were plugged into a router (not sure whose these days.) There's also somebody there with an OS/2 machine, but I have no idea who or why, or where it's plugged in.
Oh and another restrictiuon should you ever need it -- to run a $5 piece of ethernet cable 10' from one rack to another (assuming the two racks are diffrent companies eg. a cross connect) is $2000/month.
Wow. I knew it was gonna be a lot, but that's a /whole/ lot. -- J.D. Falk, System Administrator <lart@cais.net> CAIS Internet <noc@cais.net> McLean, Virginia, USA 1-888-CAIS-NOC
At 10:21 -0500 1/15/97, JDF wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Stephen Balbach wrote:
There are lots of 7513's so I doubt a 7507 would be a problem - the only restriction on equipment is no computers on the MAE EAST LAN for security reasons. Given the ability to bridge MAE EAST I'm not sure how that can be enforced. And Netscape has some mighty big SGI's promintently displayed as you walk in.
Last I'd heard, Netscape's boxen were plugged into a router (not sure whose these days.) There's also somebody there with an OS/2 machine, but I have no idea who or why, or where it's plugged in.
traceroute to ftp23.netscape.com (204.152.166.47) it is sitting at MAE-EAST -craig
Oh and another restrictiuon should you ever need it -- to run a $5 piece of ethernet cable 10' from one rack to another (assuming the two racks are diffrent companies eg. a cross connect) is $2000/month.
Wow. I knew it was gonna be a lot, but that's a /whole/ lot.
-- J.D. Falk, System Administrator <lart@cais.net> CAIS Internet <noc@cais.net> McLean, Virginia, USA 1-888-CAIS-NOC
traceroute to ftp23.netscape.com (204.152.166.47) it is sitting at MAE-EAST
-craig
It's sitting behind: mae-east.isi.net (192.41.177.118) There's a BIG difference between: 1) At MAE-East physically, but behind a router; and 2) At MAE-East physically, and with a MAE-East IP/switch connection. Those purple beauties are a case of the former. There's community concensus that (2) is 'cheating'. Avi
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, JDF wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Stephen Balbach wrote:
Oh and another restrictiuon should you ever need it -- to run a $5 piece of ethernet cable 10' from one rack to another (assuming the two racks are diffrent companies eg. a cross connect) is $2000/month.
Wow. I knew it was gonna be a lot, but that's a /whole/ lot.
Yeah. If you were to buy a ethernet handoff from UUNET, it would still cost $2000 for a ethernet cross-connect. I think the idea is, if you come to MAE EAST, use the GigaSwitch or don't come. MFS is such a nice company. .stb
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Stephen Balbach wrote:
Yeah. If you were to buy a ethernet handoff from UUNET, it would still cost $2000 for a ethernet cross-connect. I think the idea is, if you come to MAE EAST, use the GigaSwitch or don't come. MFS is such a nice company.
It would be a good idea for MFS to decrease this price for those people connected to the GigaSwitch. No reason to discourage private interconnects, especially since they take load off of the GigaSwitch. Maybe cable organization is the issue... Chris
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Chris Caputo wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Stephen Balbach wrote:
Yeah. If you were to buy a ethernet handoff from UUNET, it would still cost $2000 for a ethernet cross-connect. I think the idea is, if you come to MAE EAST, use the GigaSwitch or don't come. MFS is such a nice company.
It would be a good idea for MFS to decrease this price for those people connected to the GigaSwitch. No reason to discourage private interconnects, especially since they take load off of the GigaSwitch. Maybe cable organization is the issue...
Cable organization is not the issue. MFS is upfront about why they charge $2000/month for a cross connect - to encourage use of it's existing services. MFS is discouraging private interconnects within the MFS colocation. The is done so that they can capture revenue by selling more GigaSwitch ports. This is being done at the exspense of the MAE's performance. Soapbox on: This would not be the first time a company put it's own best interest ahead of it's customers, but given the community trust ISP's place with MFS to provide the best possible NAP, I don't think it's a positive mark for MFS and raises, again, the validity of having a single major NAP/MAE player for each metro area. As well brings up the fundamentals of a NAP being run by a telco. There are conflicting interests. MAE EAST was conceptually a UUNET creation and UUNET thought at the time a single carrier would be the best host for a MAE. That descion has, historically, shown to be very 1-sided by design or not (probaly not, but who knows what relationship dynamics were at play between UUNET/MFS in the early 1990's). .stb
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Stephen Balbach wrote:
MFS to provide the best possible NAP, I don't think it's a positive mark for MFS and raises, again, the validity of having a single major NAP/MAE player for each metro area.
How many exchange points have shared media, i.e. hub and spoke topology, and how many rely exclusively on a mesh of cross-connects? Is there any data to show whether or not the mesh of cross-connects will scale high enough to be usable for major NAP's? If so, it would not be difficult to set up such an exchange point in which people basically pay for rack space, power and the installation of cross-connects. Michael Dillon - Internet & ISP Consulting Memra Software Inc. - Fax: +1-250-546-3049 http://www.memra.com - E-mail: michael@memra.com
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Chris Caputo wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Stephen Balbach wrote:
Yeah. If you were to buy a ethernet handoff from UUNET, it would still cost $2000 for a ethernet cross-connect. I think the idea is, if you come to MAE EAST, use the GigaSwitch or don't come. MFS is such a nice company.
It would be a good idea for MFS to decrease this price for those people connected to the GigaSwitch. No reason to discourage private interconnects, especially since they take load off of the GigaSwitch. Maybe cable organization is the issue...
If part of your business was public interconnects why would you want to help private interconnects? I think you are right though, at the Atlanta-NAP we wanted to draw some of the big players, and one of the ways to do this was to let them do private interconnects over the gigaswitch of cascade 500 and then let them peer with people if they wanted to. Nathan Stratton President, NetRail,Inc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Phone (888)NetRail NetRail, Inc. Fax (703)534-5033 2007 N. 15 St. Suite 5 WWW http://www.netrail.net/ Arlington, VA 22201 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Matthew 6:34
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Nathan Stratton wrote:
If part of your business was public interconnects why would you want to help private interconnects? I think you are right though, at the Atlanta-NAP we wanted to draw some of the big players, and one of the ways to do this was to let them do private interconnects over the gigaswitch of cascade 500 and then let them peer with people if they wanted to.
Intelligent business knows when machines get overloaded and how to make money by allowing people to circumvent their network. One can assume that if the price for private interconnects were somewhat more reasonable more people would come to the MAE's. Enforcing a poorly planned economy even at this small a level is not the best way to make money. MAE-Houston, a small NAP in the scheme of things, but it makes for a good example so we'll use it. $2000/month to get your foot in the door, then another large chunk of cash to connect to the Gigaswitch which all things considered, isn't really needed. Rather than waste their money on equipment that all in all just doesn't need to be there, why not make it more economic for local players to get involved and cross connect to eachother. In the end you not only save money by not bringing in useless hardware but you garner more customers by lessening the price of the private interconnect. Think about it: Assume you have 5 customers at your NAP, all paying $5000/month for the local loop to the NAP + a connect to the Gigaswitch. You're making 25k/month, which if I guess correctly (and I could be way off, considering I'm not really up on my figures) covers your costs and payroll with perhaps 1-5k left over profit. Now take 20 customers all paying 3000/month for rack space and private interconnects. You don't have the overhead of the Gigaswitch, you have less people (less payroll expenses) and you're making $60,000/month. Less overhead, more profit. [-] Brett L. Hawn (blh @ nol dot net) [-] [-] Networks On-Line - Houston, Texas [-] [-] 713-467-7100 [-]
participants (14)
-
Avi Freedman -
Brett L. Hawn -
Chris Caputo -
Craig A. Haney -
Dorian R. Kim -
Jason Vagner -
JDF -
Michael Dillon -
Miguel A.L. Paraz -
Nathan Stratton -
Stephen Balbach -
Steve Feldman -
Steven Schnell -
Todd R. Stroup