You might consider the ADA act before you go too far down this road. I'm no expert, but it may apply... -Steve On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Berry Mobley <berry@gadsdenst.org> wrote:
Hello,
Do any of you do any color vision screening in your interview process? How do those of you with color vision impairments compensate? I'd never considered this until I was in one of our facilities with my son (who has limited color vision) and we had a discussion about the LEDs. He could only determine on/off - not amber/red/green on the equipment we had. I'm wondering if we need a color vision requirement (or test) as part of our hiring requirements.
Berry Mobley
Maybe giving them access to a colormeter? :) http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/colorimeter-digital-color/id371113568?mt=8 On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Steve Meuse <smeuse@mara.org> wrote:
You might consider the ADA act before you go too far down this road. I'm no expert, but it may apply...
-Steve
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Berry Mobley <berry@gadsdenst.org> wrote:
Hello,
Do any of you do any color vision screening in your interview process? How do those of you with color vision impairments compensate? I'd never considered this until I was in one of our facilities with my son (who has limited color vision) and we had a discussion about the LEDs. He could only determine on/off - not amber/red/green on the equipment we had. I'm wondering if we need a color vision requirement (or test) as part of our hiring requirements.
Berry Mobley
The ADA act does not allow people to have access to every single job regardless of their handicap. So, if something requires the ability to see certain colors, then that's a requirement. Scott On 8/31/12 10:30 AM, Philip Gladwin wrote:
Maybe giving them access to a colormeter? :)
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/colorimeter-digital-color/id371113568?mt=8
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Steve Meuse <smeuse@mara.org> wrote:
You might consider the ADA act before you go too far down this road. I'm no expert, but it may apply...
-Steve
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Berry Mobley <berry@gadsdenst.org> wrote:
Hello,
Do any of you do any color vision screening in your interview process? How do those of you with color vision impairments compensate? I'd never considered this until I was in one of our facilities with my son (who has limited color vision) and we had a discussion about the LEDs. He could only determine on/off - not amber/red/green on the equipment we had. I'm wondering if we need a color vision requirement (or test) as part of our hiring requirements.
Berry Mobley
On 31/08/12 7:54 AM, Scott Morris wrote:
The ADA act does not allow people to have access to every single job regardless of their handicap. So, if something requires the ability to see certain colors, then that's a requirement.
Be careful about those "requirements". The ADA requires employers to make "reasonable accommodations" to people with a handicap or disability. There are solutions such as using colored lenses to view LEDs or shining colored lights on objects (see the post about using a red flashlight to help with CAT5 wiring) that can aid those with color blindness issues. These solutions are not practical for certain jobs such as an airline pilot or train conductor where they can legally refuse to hire people who don't pass color vision tests. But the work-around solutions are likely to be considered "reasonable accommodations" for most jobs in the IT/Networking field. So if you DO decide to test for color vision, make sure you know your rights and responsibilities for handling any employee or applicant who fails the test. IANAL - if you have any questions be sure to get advice from an attorney - preferably one who specializes in employment law. jc
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:27:28 -0700, JC Dill said:
So if you DO decide to test for color vision, make sure you know your rights and responsibilities for handling any employee or applicant who fails the test.
There's something to be said for doing the test anyhow, and being prepared to deploy the accommodations, rather than find out the hard way that you have a problem after you've hired them and they've been doing splices for a while....
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 1:33 PM, <valdis.kletnieks@vt.edu> wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 11:27:28 -0700, JC Dill said:
So if you DO decide to test for color vision, make sure you know your rights and responsibilities for handling any employee or applicant who fails the test.
There's something to be said for doing the test anyhow, and being prepared to deploy the accommodations, rather than find out the hard way that you have a problem after you've hired them and they've been doing splices for a while....
That's still asking for a lawsuit if its prior to job offer. -Blake
On Aug 31, 2012, at 12:27 PM, JC Dill <jcdill.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
So if you DO decide to test for color vision, make sure you know your rights and responsibilities for handling any employee or applicant who fails the test.
IANAL - if you have any questions be sure to get advice from an attorney - preferably one who specializes in employment law.
Agreed. It's also a good idea to check with JAN if you're in the US, to see what accommodations they might suggest. I'd also add that it's the decent thing to do - if someone is qualified for the job, except for not being able to do one small part of the job the way you would imagine it being done, the right response is to find solutions, not immediately dismiss the qualified applicant. I had some involvement in the past with employees with vision disabilities. Many are trivial to accommodate. Tools I've personally seen used are the "Seekey" and colored pieces of plastic (overlays). The overlays are very cheap, not sure how much a Seekey costs. I'd also suggest asking the employee, since they have a vested interest in finding a solution. These would also work for terminating twisted pair cables. I've also seen an electronic pen-like device that was used by blind people, to determine if an LED was lit. We used this for a phone receptionist who needed to scan "busy" lights on a telephone while handling calls (I'd probably look at a softphone type solution today, but the phone system we used was definitely not softphone capable!). I don't know if it can tell the difference between red or green, nor do I remember what the thing was called. (also note that, depending on environment, "reasonable accommodation" might also mean "asking a coworker what color the light is")
I installed monitoring software with different colored status dots, and discovered that we had three color-blind team members. After a pleasant hour's tweaking I ended up with green diamonds, red X's, purple squares, and yellow exclamation points (and on this particular application a mouse-over would also tell you the name of the color gif) Looked better for *everyone*.
On Aug 31, 2012, at 13:29 , Betsy Schwartz <betsy.schwartz@gmail.com> wrote:
I installed monitoring software with different colored status dots, and discovered that we had three color-blind team members. After a pleasant hour's tweaking I ended up with green diamonds, red X's, purple squares, and yellow exclamation points (and on this particular application a mouse-over would also tell you the name of the color gif) Looked better for *everyone*.
This sounds vaguely like a cereal commercial from when I was a kid. Was the application "magically delicious" ? Owen
From: Betsy Schwartz <betsy.schwartz@gmail.com>
I ended up with green diamonds, red X's, purple squares, and yellow exclamation points (and on this particular application a mouse-over would also tell you the name of the color gif) Looked better for *everyone*.
Is that the "Lucky Charms" style of icon generation? David Barak Need Geek Rock? Try The Franchise: http://www.listentothefranchise.com
Yeah, I had that trouble with the old Cabletron (Enterasys) network management software. About 6% of Euro-American males suffer from Deuteranopia. I cannot see the difference between dark green and dark red. Bright green and bright red are better. It was not possible to adjust the Cabletron software. Contrary to popular belief, most of us can easily tell the difference between red and green traffic signals. Color-proficient readers can get an idea of our disability from this website that sells Photoshop filters for graphics artists: http://www.vischeck.com Check out the Examples. matthew black california state university, long beach -----Original Message----- From: Betsy Schwartz [mailto:betsy.schwartz@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 1:30 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Color vision for network techs I installed monitoring software with different colored status dots, and discovered that we had three color-blind team members. After a pleasant hour's tweaking I ended up with green diamonds, red X's, purple squares, and yellow exclamation points (and on this particular application a mouse-over would also tell you the name of the color gif) Looked better for *everyone*.
On 8/31/12, Scott Morris <swm@emanon.com> wrote: Perhaps the more reasonable thing to do would be instead of administering "vision tests"; administer practical skill proficiency tests, so you will expose only issues that effect performance on tasks required for a job. "Color vision" is such an arbitrary thing that does not necessarily translate into better performance on the task you think requires it; some candidates might have poor performance on the job-relevant tasks because of it, some candidates might have effective workarounds that work for them. Of course buying better equipment is one workaround; it might not be an option, if your org already owns equipment or is contracted to support equipment with problematic displays. The number of tasks where color alone is essential should be very small, and it might be to your disadvantage to single out based on that criteria though. If a job requirement is that they do some splices, then have your candidates do some splices, and judge their test results based on accuracy and speed. If they have color vision issues, and it causes the performance issue you assume, for that particular task, then it should bear out in the test results. If a job requirement is that the person in that role can specifically read status lights; then find a way to administer a practical exam, that requires demonstrating the ability to identify the status of things and troubleshoot using the lights, and use the hardest kind of status lights they will have to deal with on the job, as the test material. If the candidate requires some device or tool to help them read the status light, then allow them to use any personal aid available that does not require the use of another person network connectivity, plugins to the equipment, modifications to hardware, or other unreasonable requirements, to complete the task. And notify them in advance of the test conditions. Ensure whomever administers the test will only report the performance on the task, as the test results, and not whether or not any kind of aids were required, to the interviewer, so only the performance data can be used to make the decision.
The ADA act does not allow people to have access to every single job regardless of their handicap. So, if something requires the ability to see certain colors, then that's a requirement.
The ADA does not guarantee access, but if the employer or place of business meets certain criteria (which some might not meet, and therefore be exempt), the law does prohibit certain kinds of discrimination when it is possible to make accommodations that will provide access and that meet certain criteria; it is not allowed to refuse to accommodate to provide access, when the law applies, and the reason for refusal fails to meet certain requirements. When you seek the advise from your attorney, they should inform you how the law may or may not apply to your organization, with the specific kind of hiring and pre-offer testing you are considering.
Scott Regards,
-- -JH
participants (12)
-
Betsy Schwartz -
Blake Dunlap -
David Barak -
JC Dill -
Jimmy Hess -
Joel Maslak -
Matthew Black -
Owen DeLong -
Philip Gladwin -
Scott Morris -
Steve Meuse -
valdis.kletnieks＠vt.edu