Re: [Possible OT] California, and running off of generators for extended periods
Question: Why would (or wouldn't) your company switch your datacenter loads to generator (or other off-mains) power sources, if you had the capability and/or capacity?
1. Due to price caps, it costs me less to take electricity from PG&E (which, because I run a datacenter 24x7, I don't take with time-of-use metering) than it does to run my generator on diesel. Especially so if I factor in the non-fuel costs of operation. 2. My permit from the local air quality management district restricts me to operation when the utility is offline plus a total of 60 hours per year for all testing. I would need to apply for a permit for a different type of operation (voluntary load shedding, peak shaving, or prime generation) and for that, a full environmental impact report is required. Given #1, it isn't worth my trouble. (And my AQMD is the Monterey Bay AQMD... I can't even imagine the pain of applying in the Los Angeles area) 3. Other than as a PR effort, this doesn't make as much sense as having some industry which uses much more power than the Internet data center industry do this. Perhaps an industry which can easily move their peak load to a different hour of the day. Of course, if we had *real* deregulation, my price for power as a commercial user would closely reflect the utility's cost for power, and they might even charge me differently by time of use whether or not I wanted that... then the cost equation changes for item 1, and I'd have an incentive to go look at the true costs of item 2. -matthew kaufman Tycho Networks/DSL.net matthew@tycho.net
Anyone using or considering using a gas turbine instead of diesel to run their generators? -Sean
> Anyone using or considering using a gas turbine instead of diesel to run > their generators? Yeah, we talked quite a bit with Caterpillar, and looked at a bunch of their installations. That's actually Solar Turbines, which they bought. Also, we looked at the Capstone units (www.microturbines.com) for small installations. Both looked like big wins. Both exhaust hot enough to run a thermal transfer unit to take care of the chillers, although on radically different scales, of course. Running full-time on natural gas, they both amortize themselves in 18mos-24mos vis a vis the cost of utility electricity. Obviously the AQMB paperwork for cogen is more of a hassle than for backup, and that's where we sit right now. -Bill
On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 09:49:00AM +0000, Matthew Kaufman put this into my mailbox:
Of course, if we had *real* deregulation, my price for power as a commercial user would closely reflect the utility's cost for power, and they might even charge me differently by time of use whether or not I wanted that... then the cost equation changes for item 1, and I'd have an incentive to go look at the true costs of item 2.
Given that, is there anyone in the San Diego Gas & Electric area (fully deregulated, passing on the generation cost to consumers -- my residential power bill was $215 for december, after the state-mandated 'price reduction') who's looked at the costs of doing this, and possibly found it cheaper to run off of the generators? Also -- again to throw something out there -- there is at least one hosting company that touts itself as running entirely off of solar. (see http://www.enn.com/features/2000/07/07262000/solarhost_14768.asp; solarhost.com is what I'm thinking of). Has any other large commercial entity looked into the economics of installing a PV array say on the roof of the building above and around the cooling packs, etc? At the very least, I would think it would be a good way to supplement a battery network. Or perhaps (going even further out there) a wind generator or two? -dalvenjah -- Dalvenjah FoxFire (aka Sven Nielsen) I once heard the voice of God. It Founder, the DALnet IRC Network said "Vrrrrrmmmmmm." Unless it was just a lawn mower. e-mail: dalvenjah@dal.net WWW: http://www.dal.net/~dalvenjah/ whois: SN90 Try DALnet! http://www.dal.net/
> Has any other large commercial entity looked into the economics of > installing a PV array say on the roof of the building above and > around the cooling packs, etc? Our draw isn't huge, and we had a fair bit of roof space, so ran the numbers, and current-generation PVs would meet about 15% of our draw, measured over a 24-hour period with fair weather and average length-of-day. Is it worth the money? Probably. Would it help us in an emergency? Not substantially. -Bill
participants (4)
-
Bill Woodcock -
Dalvenjah FoxFire -
matthew＠tycho.net -
Sean Morrison