Re: the e-mail of the future is the e-mail oft the past, was Enough port 26 talk...
And you won't really have a choice because unless you're willing to go full Ted Kaczynski one in a hundred of those emails will be very, very important to you ...
Yeah. E-mail remains the only scheme where the two parties don't have to be introduced first, don't have to be online at the same time, and you can check for it in one place (if you want to, or you can sort and file to your heart's content.) I've stopped being surprised that enthusiasts who tell me that the IM or online conferencing silver bullet du jour will kill e-mail never understand this. R's, John
On 1/14/19 1:49 PM, John R. Levine wrote:
And you won't really have a choice because unless you're willing to go full Ted Kaczynski one in a hundred of those emails will be very, very important to you ...
Yeah. E-mail remains the only scheme where the two parties don't have to be introduced first, don't have to be online at the same time, and you can check for it in one place (if you want to, or you can sort and file to your heart's content.)
I've stopped being surprised that enthusiasts who tell me that the IM or online conferencing silver bullet du jour will kill e-mail never understand this.
Tell me about it. Originally, the Internet was built specifically to foster collaboration - open, interoperable protocols that work just fine across organizational boundaries. Ever since the net went commercial, we've been seeing more and more walled gardens - driven by folks with an economic advantage to segmenting & capturing audiences. Whenever someone talks about how great some new technology is, I'm always reminded to "follow the money." (And ain't it ironic that Microsoft supports calendaring protocols, while Google breaks them.) -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra
Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> writes:
Ever since the net went commercial, we've been seeing more and more walled gardens - driven by folks with an economic advantage to segmenting & capturing audiences. Whenever someone talks about how great some new technology is, I'm always reminded to "follow the money." (And ain't it ironic that Microsoft supports calendaring protocols, while Google breaks them.)
And this is happening to email too. It's not IM or online conferencing that will kill email, but fragmentation into multiple closed email environments. We accept SPF and DMARC, abusing DNS to deliberately break SMTP. All in the name of spam protection, Mailing lists barely work anymore and have to resort to hacks to be able to forward messages to their recipients. Traditional forwarding to another account hasn't worked in years. Smaller providers are regularily blocked causing service disruption to their users. It's just a matter of time before the big players, well known for their disregard of open protocols, just shut off SMTP completely. They'll probably "invent" something much better as an excuse... And the masses will love them for that, because it finally removed the spam "problem". And everyone has a gmail account anyway, so why bother with outside email? Bjørn
On 1/15/19 12:19 AM, Bjørn Mork wrote:
And everyone has a gmail account anyway, so why bother with outside email?
Two words: "search warrants." I'm a US citizen, and I do NOT like the idea of power-hungry people being able to paw through my mail. Having my own mail server, residing in my home, with medium security in place, gives me peace of mind. Even innocent people have things they want to hide from casual spying. THOSE people don't have a need to know. Period. Not to mention that I can obey the rule common in Business 101 regarding mail. It goes like this: QUESTION: You are a medium-sized company. How do you set up your mail room to be efficient, and needing only a small staff? ANSWER: You take out a number of post office boxes, and have each department use its post office box to receive mail for that department. You task one person to stop at the post office to pick up the contents of the post office box, properly banded. In short, you let the postal system sort your mail for you. They are very good at it, and can even bring automation (that you can't afford) to speed up the process. For me, I have a mail server with several dozen inboxes (Postfix/Dovecot). Only a couple of those e-mail addresses have been exposed to the world via mailing lists and USENET. Thunderbird does a nice job of presenting this gaggle of inboxes. And I keep adding mailboxes as the need arises. I can see which inboxes has incoming mail, and selectively look at each one as time permits. Yes, I see all the incoming spam that makes it through the DNSBLs, but I can ignore the spam-catchers when I have better things to do.
On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 at 09:21, Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> wrote: ..
open protocols, just shut off SMTP completely. They'll probably "invent" something much better as an excuse... And the masses will love them for that, because it finally removed the spam "problem".
And everyone has a gmail account anyway, so why bother with outside email?
I think the newsgroups died because was expensive for ISPs and filled with nasty stuff (warez and porn). Gopher died because HTML was a improvement in every possible way. IRC still exist, because it don't need to be hosted by a ISP. Forums still exist. Mail list still exist (we are on one) Homesites where replaced by blogs. Gmail? G Suite accounts are expensive. I believe you have to pay by email address and get quite pricey. "Free" alternatives have a place because can be cheaper than that. Gmail have not added the "Foo has read your message" or "Foo is replying to your email". Two things that would be easy for them to do in Gmail to Gmail communication, and would be must-have features for a mail user. So maybe they don't aim to world domination? Is very hard to replace a open protocol, wrapping may work if the protocol is mostly abandoned (IRC) but thats not the case for email. I don't think email is going to be replaced soon. -- -- ℱin del ℳensaje.
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 06:46:07PM +0100, Tei wrote:
Is very hard to replace a open protocol, wrapping may work if the protocol is mostly abandoned (IRC) but thats not the case for email.
IRC is far from abandonded. There are lots of very active networks, 2 of which I use continously. But, it's been a week of non-NANOG talk, so.... Cheers, -j
On Tuesday, 15 January, 2019 12:10, James Downs <egon@egon.cc> wrote:
On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 06:46:07PM +0100, Tei wrote:
Is very hard to replace a open protocol, wrapping may work if the protocol is mostly abandoned (IRC) but thats not the case for email.
IRC is far from abandonded. There are lots of very active networks, 2 of which I use continously.
But, it's been a week of non-NANOG talk, so....
Plus there is IRC by web pages -- you know where all the Twit's hang out .. Twittering amongst themselves. --- The fact that there's a Highway to Hell but only a Stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
On 01/15/2019 10:46 AM, Tei wrote:
I think the newsgroups died because was expensive for ISPs and filled with nasty stuff (warez and porn).
I believe newsgroups are still very much so alive and quite active. I see 15k ~ 20k messages / 50 ~ 75 MB of /text/ newsgroups daily on my server. My ~15 (I don't remember the exact number and can't be bothered to loo) peers will likely agree with me. I see content on Usenet that is not available elsewhere. There's also the binary news servers that are used to trade warz and pr0n and other untold things.
Gopher died because HTML was a improvement in every possible way.
I still see references to people using Gopher multiple times a year.
IRC still exist,
Yep. I use it daily.
because it don't need to be hosted by a ISP.
I don't think an ISP is required to host any of the things being discussed in this email.
Forums still exist.
Yep. Some of them even gateway into other communication mediums.
Mail list still exist (we are on one) Homesites where replaced by blogs.
Based on what I /personally/ see, mailing lists and usenet are roughly comparable.
Gmail?
Meh.
G Suite accounts are expensive. I believe you have to pay by email address and get quite pricey. "Free" alternatives have a place because can be cheaper than that.
Gmail have not added the "Foo has read your message" or "Foo is replying to your email". Two things that would be easy for them to do in Gmail to Gmail communication, and would be must-have features for a mail user. So maybe they don't aim to world domination?
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. <monotone>Email is not instant messaging.</monotone>
Is very hard to replace a open protocol, wrapping may work if the protocol is mostly abandoned (IRC) but thats not the case for email. I don't think email is going to be replaced soon.
There are people who say it yearly. But I never believe them. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
participants (8)
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Bjørn Mork -
Grant Taylor -
James Downs -
John R. Levine -
Keith Medcalf -
Miles Fidelman -
Stephen Satchell -
Tei