Email change kept this off the list originally. . . ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:02:13 -0400 (EDT) From: lhoward@uu.net To: Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> Cc: Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net>, North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes <nanog@merit.edu> Subject: Re: Independent space from ARIN ObDisclosure: I'm the Treasurer for ARIN. It's my job to make sure ARIN has enough money. Common wisdom has it that IPv6 will render the RIRs unnecessary, because no one will ever come back for a second request. Registration Services Group is certainly the most visible department in terms of most peoples' day-to-day interaction with ARIN. But even if we get to a certain saturation threshhold where North America only requires one person to handle allocations, other services will still be required. For instance, we will still need the Engineering group if we expect to delegate reverse zones IP6.ARPA and provide WHOIS. Possibly more, if the public decides you want ARIN to provide CA services related to sBGP and DNSSEC proposals (as presented at the last two meetings). Maybe v6 obsoletes those requirements, I don't know. How much service Member Services has to provide is up to the Members, of course, but so far the idea of open policy development has seemed to require open policy meetings. Education should continue to be a part of ARIN's charter, especially where other organizations (e.g., governments) act with insufficient understanding. In the science-fiction future of inexhaustible addresses, somebody has to pay for those services above, which means there has to be a business department to handle billing. By the time you have all those departments, you're going to need an administrative group to make sure ARIN can actually operate. Interestingly, an ARIN that never handles a second request for address space looks a lot like the ARIN of today. We're still trying to work out the fee structure for IPv6, by the way, and I'm always soliciting suggestions. At the moment, the current system (annual renewals for four categories of space) is the best suggestion. In direct response to your comment, I should say: - The RIRs don't technically lease addresses, at least not in the legal sense. - Addresses are not granted permanently because they aren't owned. The RIRs coordinate to ensure global uniqueness, not to sell or lease. - There's always work to do, even if additional allocations is only part. ppml@arin.net would be a good place to debate the future of ARIN services. Lee On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Stephen Sprunk wrote:

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:09:05 -0500 From: Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> To: Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net> Cc: North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes <nanog@merit.edu> Subject: Re: Independent space from ARIN

Thus spake "Bill Woodcock" <woody@pch.net>

...

When the day arrives when people don't want new IPv4 addresses, or there aren't any to be had, and everybody who needs v6 addresses has them, how is the registry going to be paid for?

That's why RIRs lease addresses to you, not sell them -- they get to keep collecting money forever even if they do no additional work.

S

Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking