RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
Go to RadioShack, buy wireless FM, use it in the data center. No license. -----Original Message----- From: Mathew Butler [mailto:mbutler@tonbu.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:57 AM To: 'Jade Deane'; 'Daniel Senie' Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit? Small problem: You can't use CB for any kind of business purpose. :( There's a separate business band that -can- be used for business -- you have to get a license from the FCC to use it, but that's per-company and not per-user. -Mat Butler -----Original Message----- From: Jade Deane [mailto:jade.deane@HelloNetwork.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:39 AM To: 'Daniel Senie' Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit? I didn't want to come off sounding like a Nextel proponent, but it's a solution that's worked well here. And yes, their convoluted two way system is by no means traditional, and I'm open to suggestions ;) Perhaps a CB with a nice oak finish would be in order. Breaker Breaker 1-9, we have flapping. Jade -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Senie [mailto:dts@senie.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:27 AM To: Jade Deane Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Operations: where are you going to sit? Jade Deane wrote:
Loss of signal in a data center is a good point. At a previous
organization
I was slaved to, we brought this up with Nextel sales people. After about
week or so they purposed a small in-line receiver for the various data centers, and a thin Kate Moss looking yagi for each roof. Actually, this should be a passive device. Various types of slotted waveguide/coax are made, for example in the Heliax product line. An antenna on the roof (directional antenna only if you're on the edge of a coverage area) and a slotted line through your facility will provide good results. Think about it for all commonly used frequencies (cellular and pager) that might be in use in your facility. This isn't something you have to get via your wireless vendor, and it doesn't need electronics. Hospitals have used such setups for years to permit doctor's pagers to function throughout buildings (even in basements).
Also, I can't stress the importance of a basic two way mobile system. We use the Nextel i1000+ phones for our engineering staff and NOC. The internet access features on these bad boys has been VERY handy. The ability for a NOC member to check MRTG/Openview type information and IMAP/etc. email has been beneficial. Something for you to think about: Your Nextel phones are NOT two-way radios in the traditional sense. They communicate handset to handset via
a the Nextel network (even if you're right next to each other). If you're in the midst of a storm or other natural disaster and your local cell site dies, you've got no use of those radios. Also, in the event of emergency, cell sites become overloaded with folks sitting in traffic calling people. You may find these radios least effective when you need them most. The Motorola radios other folks suggested are FM transceivers on business (or FRS) bands. These communicate directly from radio to radio (commercial gear also can use private repeaters). These are better choices, as they have no outside dependencies.
Jade
Jade E. Deane Network Engineer helloNetwork.com Las Vegas, Nevada
Office: +1 (702) 938-9267 Cell: +1 (702) 604-4759 Fax: +1 (702) 456-1471 email: jade.deane@helloNetwork.com epage: 7026044759@page.nextel.com
-----Original Message----- From: Matt Thoene [mailto:matt@thoene.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:40 AM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
:: ::I would add wireless phones in general. If NOC staff need to walk over
to
::another person's screen or to swap cables or interfaces in a ::datacenter, you ::probably don't want them tied to a desk phone. You may want to consider
::some basic 2 way radios (RF) in addition to wireless/cell phones for ::datacenter <--> NOC <--> restroom communication independent of ::any ma bell.
...especially since cell phones tend to get no signal in Data Centers...
-Matt
-- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie dts@senie.com Amaranth Networks Inc. http://www.amaranth.com
I have worked in data centers where cell phones, FM radios, Nextel phones, etc. were banned. The theory was that the radios could somehow interfere with the equipment. This never made much sense to me. Are restrictions such as this common? Anyone have any thoughts on if this is rooted in truth or falacy? It's very hard to work on some type of network problems, where you have to console in, while using someone standing outside a data center as a "talker". - Dan Golding On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Roeland Meyer wrote:
Go to RadioShack, buy wireless FM, use it in the data center. No license.
-----Original Message----- From: Mathew Butler [mailto:mbutler@tonbu.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:57 AM To: 'Jade Deane'; 'Daniel Senie' Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
Small problem: You can't use CB for any kind of business purpose. :( There's a separate business band that -can- be used for business -- you have to get a license from the FCC to use it, but that's per-company and not per-user. -Mat Butler -----Original Message----- From: Jade Deane [mailto:jade.deane@HelloNetwork.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:39 AM To: 'Daniel Senie' Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
I didn't want to come off sounding like a Nextel proponent, but it's a solution that's worked well here. And yes, their convoluted two way system is by no means traditional, and I'm open to suggestions ;) Perhaps a CB with a nice oak finish would be in order. Breaker Breaker 1-9,
we have flapping. Jade -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Senie [mailto:dts@senie.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 10:27 AM To: Jade Deane Cc: 'Matt Thoene'; nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Operations: where are you going to sit?
Jade Deane wrote:
Loss of signal in a data center is a good point. At a previous
organization
I was slaved to, we brought this up with Nextel sales people. After about
week or so they purposed a small in-line receiver for the various data centers, and a thin Kate Moss looking yagi for each roof. Actually, this should be a passive device. Various types of slotted waveguide/coax are made, for example in the Heliax product line. An antenna on the roof (directional antenna only if you're on the edge of a coverage area) and a slotted line through your facility will provide good results. Think about it for all commonly used frequencies (cellular and pager) that might be in use in your facility. This isn't something you have to get via your wireless vendor, and it doesn't need electronics. Hospitals have used such setups for years to permit doctor's pagers to function throughout buildings (even in basements).
Also, I can't stress the importance of a basic two way mobile system. We use the Nextel i1000+ phones for our engineering staff and NOC. The internet access features on these bad boys has been VERY handy. The ability for a NOC member to check MRTG/Openview type information and IMAP/etc. email has been beneficial. Something for you to think about: Your Nextel phones are NOT two-way radios in the traditional sense. They communicate handset to handset via
a the Nextel network (even if you're right next to each other). If you're in the midst of a storm or other natural disaster and your local cell site dies, you've got no use of those radios. Also, in the event of emergency, cell sites become overloaded with folks sitting in traffic calling people. You may find these radios least effective when you need them most. The Motorola radios other folks suggested are FM transceivers on business (or FRS) bands. These communicate directly from radio to radio (commercial gear also can use private repeaters). These are better choices, as they have no outside dependencies.
Jade
Jade E. Deane Network Engineer helloNetwork.com Las Vegas, Nevada
Office: +1 (702) 938-9267 Cell: +1 (702) 604-4759 Fax: +1 (702) 456-1471 email: jade.deane@helloNetwork.com epage: 7026044759@page.nextel.com
-----Original Message----- From: Matt Thoene [mailto:matt@thoene.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:40 AM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: Operations: where are you going to sit?
:: ::I would add wireless phones in general. If NOC staff need to walk over
to
::another person's screen or to swap cables or interfaces in a ::datacenter, you ::probably don't want them tied to a desk phone. You may want to consider
::some basic 2 way radios (RF) in addition to wireless/cell phones for ::datacenter <--> NOC <--> restroom communication independent of ::any ma bell.
...especially since cell phones tend to get no signal in Data Centers...
-Matt
-- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Senie dts@senie.com Amaranth Networks Inc. http://www.amaranth.com
From what I've seen, many of the more savvy customers are just getting a
:: ::I have worked in data centers where cell phones, FM radios, Nextel phones, ::etc. were banned. The theory was that the radios could somehow interfere ::with the equipment. This never made much sense to me. Are restrictions ::such as this common? Anyone have any thoughts on if this is rooted in ::truth or falacy? It's very hard to work on some type of network problems, ::where you have to console in, while using someone standing outside a data ::center as a "talker". :: pots line to their cab/cage/suite to overcome the wireless issues. -Matt
Dan- Semi-truth. Older equipment, poorly shielded equipment, and highly-sensitive equipment can /sometimes/ be interfered with by higher-powered RF transmitters. You'll see this sort of policy in hospitals, microchip fab plants, and -some- datacenters (among others). A blanket policy is better than having to tell people exactly what type of RF devices are banned (above a certain ERP wattage, modulation types, etc). -J On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Daniel L. Golding wrote:
I have worked in data centers where cell phones, FM radios, Nextel
etc. were banned. The theory was that the radios could somehow interfere with the equipment. This never made much sense to me. Are restrictions such as this common? Anyone have any thoughts on if this is rooted in truth or falacy? It's very hard to work on some type of network
phones, problems,
where you have to console in, while using someone standing outside a data center as a "talker".
- Dan Golding
Jason A. Mills phyxis@rottweiler.org "We all live in a house on fire, no fire department to call, no way out, just the upstairs window to look out of while the fire burns the house down with us trapped, locked inside it." -- Tennessee Williams
On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Daniel L. Golding wrote:
I have worked in data centers where cell phones, FM radios, Nextel phones, etc. were banned. The theory was that the radios could somehow interfere with the equipment. This never made much sense to me. Are restrictions such as this common? Anyone have any thoughts on if this is rooted in truth or falacy? It's very hard to work on some type of network problems, where you have to console in, while using someone standing outside a data center as a "talker".
As one of the people responsible for implimenting such rule in the data center that you are referring to, I have to say that, IMHO, any device when held fairly close to my land line telephone causes loud clicking and screaching noises, or when held near a CRT makes the whole screen dance around in a pretty pattern is likely to cause problems with other electronic equipment as well. Of course I've only really experienced this with PCS band mobile phones, not with cordless phones or analog cellular, but we made it a blanket rule so as to not have to inspect each visitor's phone to determine if it was likely to cause a problem or not. Brandon Ross 404-522-5400 EVP Engineering, NetRail http://www.netrail.net AIM: BrandonNR ICQ: 2269442 Read RFC 2644!
participants (5)
-
Brandon Ross -
Daniel L. Golding -
Jason A. Mills -
Matt Thoene -
Roeland Meyer