It has been clear over the past (years?..... time sure flies....) there has been a strong and very vocal pro-filtering Keep the Routing Table Small at *any* cost, group of advocates and protagonists in the NANOG mailing list.

Its just as clear that there is a group opposed to this policy/practice. (And I thinks fair to say they are vocal as well)

It is easy to reach the conjecture that the _perception_ of *others* is; having many strong and vocal pro-filtering protagonists in NANOG; and given the fact that the few who warned that selective route filtering was very problematic were flamed-broiled and none came to their defense

No one who spoke out against the various proposed filtering solutions was prohibited from speaking. Not one individual was told "We have voted and NANOG believes X so you should do X and just shut up." Those who did not believe the pro-filtering vocal group continued and still do continue to speak up. Any one who examines the archives can see those open discusssions .... pointless and slanted metaphor deleted

It is not a strong leap of the imagination to believe that NANOG, the vocal majority, supports selective route-filtering to control routing table growth and was very aggressive to oppress the those whom dared to stand alone and challenge there will.

It may not be a strong leap of imagination but its certainly sloppy thinking. It is also not true that just because a fraction of a group supports a thing - the GROUP supports it. The sum of the parts does not always equal the whole. The NANOG group has made numerous efforts to let people know what things that the GROUP does and does not endorse.

Please keep in mind that as in *any* group, NANOG included, by virture of allowing a few dominate voices to represent the group, does bear responsibility for the perception others view the group.

Who is preventing you or any other person from expressing your views? The cold hard truth is that any fraction that wants to can speak and attempt to sway people to their view. If you come up with a real solution to the problem, this is an extremely competative market. Some one would love to have a way to keep their router up and running at the point a Cisco or Bay box is puking its guts out. I have listened to your proposals and points of view because frequently when a paradigm shift occurs it is indeed an outsider who brings it to the world. However that does not mean that just because one is an outsider one has the new truth. The pro-filtering group has presented alot of hard data and solutions. Yes there is pain in those solutions but I prefer it to hand waving. bjp@eng.umd.edu | Disclaimer: Can you be sure I even uunet!eng.umd.edu!istari | exist: Let alone represent anyone Brad Passwaters (Network Ronin) | or anything. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here we are. Born to be kings. We're the princes of the universe. Here we belong, fighting to survive in a war with the darkest power. Network Manager's Theme Song (QUEEN)