Hi all, As you may have seen from the NANOG 24 agenda, I'm running two NAP sessions at the coming meeting. In the General Session, there is a NAP update, from a handful of NAPs. We've had to keep this session small, and tightly timed, to fit well into the agenda. On the Monday evening, we'll have a NAP BoF session, which will I'm planning on being fairly free-form, but will consist of: * an "open-mic" for operators who didn't participate in the general session to introduce themselves and their IX/NAP. * a chance to carry out further discussion of any "hot topics" from the general session - I've even asked for a whiteboard/flipchart. * a place where participants get the opportunity to meet and chat with the operators of the NAPs where they participate now, or may be participating in the future. * We'll probably head toward the bar at some point too... :-) Why have we chosen to split it up like this? Well, in Europe, at the RIPE meeting, there is an open European IXP working-group for which we get 3 hours of agenda time. Not all the IXPs show up, and still we are hard-pressed to fit things in the schedule! So, if there are any NAP/IX operators who would be interested in coming along to the evening BoF, drop me a mail, or you're free to just turn up on the night. Of course, we would also like plenty of NAP participants to show up too! It will also be a good chance to meet with potential new peers as well... See you in Miami! Mike
i believe there are/were only four NAPs, so scheduling should not be a problem. randy
Randy Bush wrote: >> i believe there are/were only four NAPs, so scheduling should not be a >> problem. Richard Irving wrote: > Not! > www.ep.net ^^ Um, does that spell "NAP" to you? NAP means something specific. I think you're confusing it with "exchange point". And Randy isn't. Plus, you top-posted. -Bill
If you recall... NAP's were tiered... 1,2 etc... So, you now claim only Tier 1's are actual NAP's ? (not wanting to send reporters to the phones with yet another mythconception) Why don't we take a look at the listings for North America, from this site.... and we can see where I developed this "incredible misnomer"... Perhaps we will need people to rename their "exchanges", eh ? Get Bill M's call on it..... Tiering was his Idea. ===================== The East Coast... ATL-NAP Atlanta BMPX - Boston Metropolitan Exchange Point BNAP - Baltimore NAP FloridaMIX - Florida Multimedia Internet Exchange (News Article) ipx - A New Jersey Activity Louisville-nap.net MAGPI - a Mid Atlantic Gigapop for Internet2 NNAP - Neutral NAP Nashville Regional Exchange Point Nap of the Americas: Miami, Florida (under construction) NY6iX - A New York IPv6 exchange NYIIX - New York International Internet Exchange (Telehouse) MetroIX - Various NE sites, NY Philadelphia Internet Exchange Pittsburg Internet Exchange Research Triangle Park Sprint NAP (Pennsauken NJ) Vermont ISP Exchange Private(Password Required) The West Coast... AMAP - Anchorage Metropolitan Access Point AIX - Ames Internet Exchange COX - Central Oregon Internet Exchange HIX - Hawaii Internet Exchange LAIIX - Telehouse LosAngles LAP - A Los Angeles Exchange, includes MAE-LA. Northwest Access Exchange - Portland (website under construction) OIX - Oregon Internet Exchange Pacific Bell NAP Information PACIFIC WAVE - Pacific Wave Exchange SD-NAP - San Diego (Caida) SIX - Seattle Internet Exchange SNNAP - Puget Sound Regional Interconnect Statistics Link Arizona & New Mexico... New Mexico Internet Exchange New Mexico Network Access Point TTI - The Tucson Interconnect Texas... Austin - AMAP Compaq's Houston NAP Dallas-Ft Worth DWFMAP Mae Houston Magie - A Houston Exchange San Antonio SAMAP The Middle American Exchange Points Ameritech NAP info (Chicago NAP) CMH-IX - Columbus Internet Exchange DIX - Denver Internet Exchange IndyX - Indianapolis Data Exchange Mountain Area eXchange (Denver) Nashville CityNet Ohio Exchange STAR TAP (12 GigaPOP) The Arch - St. Louis, Mo. Utah REP Canada... BCIX - British Columbia Internet Exchange BC Gigapop - British Columbia Gigapop CA/NAP Canada/Toronto Exchange CANIX: Originally CA*net sponsored - No URL Supplied Edmonton Internet Exchange MIX - Montreal Internet Exchange The Nova Scotia Gigapop Ottawa Internet eXchange Quebec Internet Exchange (French) Toronto Internet Exchange torix.net and torix.com are now registered domains of the Toronto Internet Exchange = North American R&E Fabric= PAIX Equinix West Coast: Los Angeles and San Jose CA. East Coast: Newark NJ and Ashburn VA. Middle America: Chicago IL. and Dallas TX. LA NAP Napnet A GTE Company Randy Bush wrote:
now that you have displayed your ignorance of history and terminology, where do you plan to go next.
Since you seem to have a limited memory, let me remind you I was -in- these meetings.. Now get in practice Randy: "Do you want fries with that ?"
Not!
www.ep.net
Randy Bush wrote:
i believe there are/were only four NAPs, so scheduling should not be a problem.
randy
Bill Woodcock wrote:
Randy Bush wrote: >> i believe there are/were only four NAPs, so scheduling should not be a >> problem.
Richard Irving wrote: > Not! > www.ep.net ^^
Um, does that spell "NAP" to you?
NAP means something specific. I think you're confusing it with "exchange point". And Randy isn't. Plus, you top-posted.
-Bill
Well, teach me to enjoy those "Beer and Gears" ..... ;) bmanning@karoshi.com wrote:
Get Bill M's call on it..... Tiering was his Idea.
No. Vadim was the first person I heard talk about "tiering" and it was in the construct of Service Providers, not exchanges. I don't think anything I've said argues for the concept of tiers in relation to exchanges.
Circa 1995-6 , as I recall... right in the middle of the NO 53 wars... I could be confusing the origin, though.... Alas, I guess it doesn't really matter: A rose by any other name, smells just as sweet.
--bill
On Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:58:00 PST, Paul Vixie <vixie@as.vix.com> said:
I don't think anything I've said argues for the concept of tiers in relation to exchanges.
Oh foo. You mean we won't be treated to an argument about who is in Tier 0?
The first 17 providers who manage to get "Better than Tier-1" into their promotional material, of course.
Not!
www.ep.net
Randy Bush wrote:
i believe there are/were only four NAPs, so scheduling should not be a problem.
randy
Richard, Friend Bush has tounge firmly in cheek. He refers to the US NSF NAPs, not the generic term Network Access Point, sometimes called Exchange Point, or Internet eXchange. I 'spect he is trolling. --bill
i believe there are/were only four NAPs, so scheduling should not be a problem.
it seems that many folk do not know that NSF let contracts involving four NAPs, Pennsauken, AADS, PacBell, and MAE-East (i hope bit-rot has not set in so badly i blew that list). those are/were the only NAPs. there are many more excnagne points. the essence of what NSF said was that, to get a transition contract, a provider had to be at the NAPs so others would know where/how to reach them. what they did not say was that the providers had to peer openly and provision sufficient bandwidth; but that's another story. i am sure this is all written down somewhere, which is good as i suffer from increasing bit-rot. i think george santayana had something to say about all this. randy
Randy Bush wrote: > it seems that many folk do not know that NSF let contracts involving four > NAPs, Pennsauken, AADS, PacBell, and MAE-East As part of the NII, the National Information Infrastructure. The same document defined NSP, ISP, and IAP. > There are many more exchange points. About three hundred, by the count that Bill, Antony, and I have been keeping: http://www.pch.net/documents/data/exchange-points/ep-in-addrs.txt http://www.pch.net/documents/data/exchange-points/ep-in-addrs.xls Additions and corrections solicited. -Bill
Something bothers me about this thread, and I think it is the assertion that there is a proper definition for 'NAP' as differentiated from 'IXP' or what not. It seems as silly as trying to define Tier 1 v. Tier 2. The NSF's documents do not define terminology or protocols in a manner like the IETF for the operation of the greater Internet. I believe the referenced documents discuss requirements for the transition of the backbone over time, but i don't have them in front of me, nor am I eidetic like some folks seem. People should be free to define these terms as they see fit, with no central authority defining what is what (and I don't think there should be). A scientific community will communicate (only|best) through a common vernacular, but to disallow ambiguity in certain terms is to require unanimity, which will not occur. Given that the Internet is more of a business community than a scientific community, appropriate ambiguity should be openly accepted. The original 4 NSF sanctioned NAPs should retain a historical differentiation from all others due to their significance in transitioning the original NSFNet Internet to privately funded backbones. To assert a 'proper use' of the term "NAP" oversteps logic and implies an arrogantly fascist assertion of perspective. So I think. -alan ps. in a few gogle searches for the paper, I did find a reminiscent article on the assumptions and arguments back in 1994 circa NSFNet cessation of Internet Backbone funding at: http://www.cookreport.com/03.07.shtml
On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Randy Bush wrote:
Something bothers me about this thread, and I think it is the assertion that there is a proper definition for 'NAP' as differentiated from 'IXP' or what not.
yup. george santayana was right
You mean "History is always written wrong, and so always needs to be rewritten." or "Intolerance is a form of egotism, and to condemn egotism intolerantly is to share it." or something else?
People should be free to define these terms as they see fit, with no central authority defining what is what (and I don't think there should be).
Those first 12 words are the bane of everybody who actually gets work done. No, regardless of the fact that Americans (myself included) feel the need to redefine words that had perfectly good and clear meanings in the first place (myself not included), having a variable and subjective vocabulary means that succinct, objective discussion is nearly impossible. There are dozens of papers written on this topic, some dating back over a thousand years. Scientists have long gotten past this battle. Learn from it. -- Joe Rhett Chief Geek JRhett@ISite.Net ISite Services, Inc.
Bill Woodcock wrote:
About three hundred, by the count that Bill, Antony, and I have been keeping:
http://www.pch.net/documents/data/exchange-points/ep-in-addrs.txt http://www.pch.net/documents/data/exchange-points/ep-in-addrs.xls
Australia Adelaide AusBONE AusBONE -> There is no Adelaide AusBONE IX; there used to be a connection between AusBone and SAIX, but it is no more. Australia Adelaide South Australian Internet Exchange SAIX SE 198.32.240.0/24 Australia Adelaide South Australian Internet Exchange SAIX SE 203.34.35.0/24 -> Is the SAIX relocation still in progress or complete? Australia Brisbane AusBONE-Brisbane Internet Exchange AusBONE-BIX 198.32.230.0/24 -> Also uses 198.32.231.0/24 due to the way it's set up. -> Location is AAPT, Riverside Centre, 123 Eagle St, Brisbane Australia Brisbane AusBONE-Brisbane Internet Exchange AusBONE-BIX 198.32.232.0/24 -> Duplicate entry with the wrong exchange's IPs (AusBone Sydney's). Australia Melbourne AusBONE-Melbourne Internet Exchange AusBONE-MEL 198.32.234.0/24 -> Location is AAPT, 530 Collins St, Melbourne Australia Melbourne Victorian Internet Exchange VIX -> IP block is 198.32.194.0/24 (this is a residual exchange from AUIX, and at present the VIX and AusBone-MEL switch fabrics are linked although we intend to separate the switch fabrics Real Soon Now...) -> Location is AAPT, 530 Collins St, Melbourne Australia Perth Western Australia Internet Exchange WAIX 198.32.212.0/24 -> Very successful IX, surprised they don't have more IP space by now :) -> Location is QV1, 250 St Georges Terrace, Perth Australia Sydney AusBONE-Sydney Internet Exchange AusBONE-SYD 198.32.232.0/24 -> Location is AAPT, 30 Ross St, Glebe Australia Sydney Pihana Sydney Pihana Sydney -> Never heard of them, and there's no real info listed for them I'm surprised AUSIX isn't in there, or was it already removed after the Exodus collapse and closure of their Union St, Pyrmont facility where it was located? There was also a Paradox Internet Exchange in Sydney (Skygarden, Pitt St, Sydney), but we pulled out of there a couple of years back leaving Paradox to peer with themselves, and they've been through liquidation at least once since then, so the exchange quite possibly isn't there anymore :) There were some other IX's - one more in Perth, a few buildings down from WAIX (WAIX is in QV1, the other IX was in BankWest, the same building the PARNet network is hubbed out of - but PARNet connected to WAIX not the "other" IX), I'm not sure if it's still there, one in West Sydney (I forget the name of it) and some guy who set up a 33k6 peering exchange for small ISPs in Melbourne (I haven't paid much attention to what happened to that...). AusBone are attempting to set up some regional IX's in Australia, such as Newcastle, Wollongong, etc - none are actually established yet though. David. -- David Luyer Phone: +61 3 9674 7525 Network Development Manager P A C I F I C Fax: +61 3 9699 8693 Pacific Internet (Australia) I N T E R N E T Mobile: +61 4 1111 BYTE http://www.pacific.net.au/ NASDAQ: PCNTF
At 7:47 PM +1100 30/1/02, David Luyer wrote:
Australia Adelaide South Australian Internet Exchange SAIX SE 198.32.240.0/24 Australia Adelaide South Australian Internet Exchange SAIX SE 203.34.35.0/24 -> Is the SAIX relocation still in progress or complete?
I don't believe it has moved at all. There was some talk about it but no action as far as I am aware. Mark.
participants (12)
-
Alan Hannan -
Bill Woodcock -
bmanning＠karoshi.com -
David Luyer -
Joe Rhett -
Mark Prior -
Mike Hughes -
Paul Vixie -
Randy Bush -
Richard Irving -
Steve Schaefer -
Valdis.Kletnieks＠vt.edu