Re: today's Wash Post Business section
From owner-nanog@merit.edu Wed Dec 20 21:49:49 2006 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 22:48:06 -0500 Subject: Re: today's Wash Post Business section
At 19:31 -0800 12/20/06, Thomas Leavitt wrote:
Many people don't understand anything about how they access the Internet, they have a vague idea that they need to type a domain name into a box somewhere... so they type www.myspace.com into the Google search box, the result set pops up, and then they click on the first result to get to the web site in question... I've seen it more than once.
Thomas
Yeah, granted anyone looking for myspace might meet that demographic, but how many neophytes would use Google for a "IP Who Is" "search"? That's the listing I thought odd.
Does MS-Windows come with a 'whois' client? Does MacOS come with a 'whois' client? How many people have a search engine as their 'home page' in their web browser? How many end-user types _don't_know_ about anything other than a web-browser/ mail-client for Internet access? With the 'forced education' most people get with regard to spam recieved in their mailbox, it's not suprising that the masses are using the tools they 'know how to use' to check up on things.
Yes, Mac OSX has a whois client in Network Utility, but it's crap. On 12/21/06, Robert Bonomi <bonomi@mail.r-bonomi.com> wrote:
From owner-nanog@merit.edu Wed Dec 20 21:49:49 2006 Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 22:48:06 -0500 Subject: Re: today's Wash Post Business section
At 19:31 -0800 12/20/06, Thomas Leavitt wrote:
Many people don't understand anything about how they access the Internet, they have a vague idea that they need to type a domain name into a box somewhere... so they type www.myspace.com into the Google search box, the result set pops up, and then they click on the first result to get to the web site in question... I've seen it more than once.
Thomas
Yeah, granted anyone looking for myspace might meet that demographic, but how many neophytes would use Google for a "IP Who Is" "search"? That's the listing I thought odd.
Does MS-Windows come with a 'whois' client? Does MacOS come with a 'whois' client?
How many people have a search engine as their 'home page' in their web browser?
How many end-user types _don't_know_ about anything other than a web-browser/ mail-client for Internet access?
With the 'forced education' most people get with regard to spam recieved in their mailbox, it's not suprising that the masses are using the tools they 'know how to use' to check up on things.
On 21 Dec 2006, at 12:04, Alexander Harrowell wrote:
Yes, Mac OSX has a whois client in Network Utility, but it's crap.
There is a fully featured command line whois client. factory:~ andy$ whois usage: whois [-aAbdgiIlmQrR6] [-c country-code | -h hostname] [-p port] name ... -- Regards, Andy Davidson Consultant Systems and Network Engineer, Devonshire IT Limited http://www.devonshire.it/ - 0844 704 704 7 - Sheffield, UK
Alexander Harrowell wrote:
Yes, Mac OSX has a whois client in Network Utility, but it's crap.
but the command line one from terminal seems ok, it's probably the same one that's stock in FreeBSD. richard -- Richard Welty rwelty@mycelery.com 1-866-MY-CELERY 518-269-8232 (cell)
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 05:59:21 CST, Robert Bonomi said:
How many people have a search engine as their 'home page' in their web browser?
How many end-user types _don't_know_ about anything other than a web-browser/ mail-client for Internet access?
And what percent of our operational issues are caused by that mindset? (Hint - how much smaller would the spam problem be if end users actually looked at their cable or DSL modem and wondered why the Tx/Rx lights were on steady even though nothing was apparently happening?)
Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 05:59:21 CST, Robert Bonomi said:
How many people have a search engine as their 'home page' in their web browser?
How many end-user types _don't_know_ about anything other than a web-browser/ mail-client for Internet access?
And what percent of our operational issues are caused by that mindset?
(Hint - how much smaller would the spam problem be if end users actually looked at their cable or DSL modem and wondered why the Tx/Rx lights were on steady even though nothing was apparently happening?)
Google and Yahoo (and their toolbars) have replaced the address line. Which can lead to some confusion when you think the customer has just gone to your homepage, but instead has gone to the Google search page for the URL... and then you just hope your homepage is the first hit on it. What blows my mind is that from what I've seen the default install of IE7 doesn't include the Menu Bar displayed. :( -- Jeff Shultz
Jeff Shultz wrote:
What blows my mind is that from what I've seen the default install of IE7 doesn't include the Menu Bar displayed. :(
Lucky for me I haven't *_even_* seen IE7 :D ----- J. Oquendo "Resistance is fultile" http://www.infiltrated.net/nanogpolice.jpg
Jeff Shultz wrote:
Google and Yahoo (and their toolbars) have replaced the address line. Which can lead to some confusion when you think the customer has just gone to your homepage, but instead has gone to the Google search page for the URL... and then you just hope your homepage is the first hit on it.
What blows my mind is that from what I've seen the default install of IE7 doesn't include the Menu Bar displayed. :(
Yes, and I anticipate many very annoying support issues with my clients as a result... Microsoft is apparently determined to eliminate the Menu Bar as an interface characteristic (I've heard that the latest version of Office also eliminates it)... one very annoying example of what disappears as a result is the "Find in page" feature (Cntl-F). The first thing I do when I upgrade someone to IE7 is turn on the Menu Bar... and I've noticed that almost every other computer I've touched with IE7 has it turned back on... Thomas
The first thing I do when I upgrade someone to IE7 is turn on the Menu Bar... and I've noticed that almost every other computer I've touched with IE7 has it turned back on...
Thomas
I stumbled on to the 'Alt' key toggling the Menu Bar (in case that helps). --Michael
On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 10:53:04AM -0500, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote: ...
(Hint - how much smaller would the spam problem be if end users actually looked at their cable or DSL modem and wondered why the Tx/Rx lights were on steady even though nothing was apparently happening?)
You appear to be assuming that they might consider them to mean something other than Christmas decorations all year. -- Joe Yao ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This message is not an official statement of OSIS Center policies.
In article <200612211553.kBLFr4Dp013715@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> you write:
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On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 05:59:21 CST, Robert Bonomi said:
How many people have a search engine as their 'home page' in their web browser?
How many end-user types _don't_know_ about anything other than a web-browser/ mail-client for Internet access?
And what percent of our operational issues are caused by that mindset?
(Hint - how much smaller would the spam problem be if end users actually looked at their cable or DSL modem and wondered why the Tx/Rx lights were on steady even though nothing was apparently happening?)
Given the amount of noise on a cable modem flickering lights mean nothing. Mark bsdi# tcpdump -n -p -i sis0 -c 100 tcpdump: listening on sis0 11:32:41.454256 arp who-has 211.30.229.109 tell 211.30.229.1 11:32:41.562115 arp who-has 211.30.199.18 tell 211.30.199.1 11:32:41.642079 arp who-has 220.239.251.63 tell 220.239.251.1 11:32:41.643525 arp who-has 220.239.250.171 tell 220.239.250.1 11:32:41.677633 arp who-has 211.30.216.48 tell 211.30.216.1 11:32:41.794968 arp who-has 211.30.226.166 tell 211.30.226.1 11:32:41.874214 arp who-has 211.30.217.144 tell 211.30.217.1 11:32:41.940124 arp who-has 220.239.250.110 tell 220.239.250.1 11:32:42.061169 arp who-has 220.239.251.238 tell 220.239.251.1 11:32:42.068020 arp who-has 211.30.226.41 tell 211.30.226.1 11:32:42.112271 arp who-has 211.30.199.140 tell 211.30.199.1 11:32:42.172243 arp who-has 211.30.230.189 tell 211.30.230.1 11:32:42.202287 arp who-has 211.30.229.12 tell 211.30.229.1 11:32:42.427869 arp who-has 211.30.218.25 tell 211.30.218.1 11:32:42.547276 arp who-has 211.30.229.88 tell 211.30.229.1 11:32:42.608796 arp who-has 211.30.219.100 tell 211.30.219.1 11:32:42.657183 arp who-has 220.239.249.187 tell 220.239.249.1 11:32:42.850833 arp who-has 211.30.226.203 tell 211.30.226.1 11:32:42.950771 arp who-has 211.30.225.26 tell 211.30.225.1 11:32:43.020825 arp who-has 211.30.231.221 tell 211.30.231.1 11:32:43.189058 arp who-has 220.239.249.8 tell 220.239.249.1 11:32:43.292814 arp who-has 220.239.251.44 tell 220.239.251.1 11:32:43.299346 arp who-has 211.30.231.71 tell 211.30.231.1 11:32:43.513540 arp who-has 211.30.197.89 tell 211.30.197.1 11:32:43.691250 arp who-has 211.30.200.132 tell 211.30.200.1 11:32:43.704822 arp who-has 211.30.231.203 tell 211.30.231.1 11:32:43.735968 arp who-has 211.30.216.48 tell 211.30.216.1 11:32:43.884020 arp who-has 220.239.235.111 tell 220.239.235.1 11:32:43.960083 arp who-has 211.30.231.194 tell 211.30.231.1 11:32:44.125446 arp who-has 220.239.251.63 tell 220.239.251.1 11:32:44.153568 arp who-has 211.30.219.144 tell 211.30.219.1 11:32:44.236524 arp who-has 211.30.231.159 tell 211.30.231.1 11:32:44.407126 arp who-has 211.30.230.185 tell 211.30.230.1 11:32:44.477931 arp who-has 220.239.251.238 tell 220.239.251.1 11:32:44.550663 arp who-has 211.30.229.109 tell 211.30.229.1 11:32:44.672468 220.239.253.18.5060 > 204.152.184.238.5060: udp 397 [tos 0x70] 11:32:44.752201 arp who-has 211.30.226.166 tell 211.30.226.1 11:32:44.763455 arp who-has 211.30.84.48 tell 211.30.84.1 11:32:44.810355 arp who-has 211.30.231.208 tell 211.30.231.1 11:32:44.822101 arp who-has 211.30.197.207 tell 211.30.197.1 11:32:44.834843 arp who-has 211.30.202.153 tell 211.30.202.1 11:32:44.835241 arp who-has 220.239.249.194 tell 220.239.249.1 11:32:44.869841 arp who-has 211.30.199.33 tell 211.30.199.1 11:32:44.876458 204.152.184.238.5060 > 220.239.253.18.5060: udp 421 (DF) 11:32:44.876678 204.152.184.238.5060 > 220.239.253.18.5060: udp 503 (DF) 11:32:44.909326 arp who-has 211.30.220.214 tell 211.30.220.1 11:32:44.925528 arp who-has 211.30.197.180 tell 211.30.197.1 11:32:44.988148 220.239.253.18.5060 > 204.152.184.238.5060: udp 569 [tos 0x70] 11:32:45.054125 arp who-has 211.30.227.157 tell 211.30.227.1 11:32:45.084153 arp who-has 211.30.199.140 tell 211.30.199.1 11:32:45.110233 arp who-has 220.239.251.205 tell 220.239.251.1 11:32:45.183978 arp who-has 211.30.197.15 tell 211.30.197.1 11:32:45.229915 arp who-has 211.30.229.171 tell 211.30.229.1 11:32:45.249146 arp who-has 220.239.250.110 tell 220.239.250.1 11:32:45.294907 arp who-has 220.239.251.44 tell 220.239.251.1 11:32:45.306706 arp who-has 211.30.229.155 tell 211.30.229.1 11:32:45.424483 204.152.184.238.5060 > 220.239.253.18.5060: udp 421 (DF) 11:32:45.454086 204.152.184.238.5060 > 220.239.253.18.5060: udp 499 (DF) 11:32:45.498507 arp who-has 211.30.227.66 tell 211.30.227.1 11:32:45.741632 arp who-has 220.239.235.161 tell 220.239.235.1 11:32:45.789663 arp who-has 211.30.200.133 tell 211.30.200.1 11:32:45.833490 arp who-has 211.30.197.118 tell 211.30.197.1 11:32:45.963864 arp who-has 211.30.197.203 tell 211.30.197.1 11:32:46.008005 arp who-has 220.239.235.111 tell 220.239.235.1 11:32:46.079110 arp who-has 211.30.218.14 tell 211.30.218.1 11:32:46.104062 arp who-has 211.30.231.118 tell 211.30.231.1 11:32:46.191273 arp who-has 211.30.199.18 tell 211.30.199.1 11:32:46.466939 arp who-has 220.239.253.192 tell 220.239.253.1 11:32:46.478426 arp who-has 211.30.229.48 tell 211.30.229.1 11:32:46.580880 arp who-has 220.239.249.8 tell 220.239.249.1 11:32:46.636182 arp who-has 211.30.226.203 tell 211.30.226.1 11:32:46.647483 arp who-has 211.30.226.200 tell 211.30.226.1 11:32:46.656939 arp who-has 211.30.225.88 tell 211.30.225.1 11:32:46.698932 arp who-has 211.30.217.227 tell 211.30.217.1 11:32:46.785016 arp who-has 220.239.252.119 tell 220.239.252.1 11:32:46.837482 arp who-has 211.30.199.221 tell 211.30.199.1 11:32:46.845408 arp who-has 220.239.252.38 tell 220.239.252.1 11:32:46.875199 arp who-has 211.30.200.132 tell 211.30.200.1 11:32:47.008572 arp who-has 211.30.226.177 tell 211.30.226.1 11:32:47.061227 arp who-has 211.30.197.207 tell 211.30.197.1 11:32:47.107482 arp who-has 211.30.231.194 tell 211.30.231.1 11:32:47.109845 arp who-has 220.239.252.57 tell 220.239.252.1 11:32:47.110621 arp who-has 211.30.199.140 tell 211.30.199.1 11:32:47.133035 arp who-has 211.30.231.221 tell 211.30.231.1 11:32:47.245990 arp who-has 211.30.230.189 tell 211.30.230.1 11:32:47.397302 arp who-has 220.239.249.194 tell 220.239.249.1 11:32:47.485233 arp who-has 211.30.229.109 tell 211.30.229.1 11:32:47.503208 arp who-has 211.30.227.66 tell 211.30.227.1 11:32:47.513614 arp who-has 211.30.217.105 tell 211.30.217.1 11:32:47.515842 arp who-has 211.30.227.135 tell 211.30.227.1 11:32:47.795445 arp who-has 211.30.226.166 tell 211.30.226.1 11:32:47.866079 arp who-has 220.239.251.238 tell 220.239.251.1 11:32:47.895090 arp who-has 220.239.250.110 tell 220.239.250.1 11:32:47.985546 arp who-has 211.30.218.252 tell 211.30.218.1 11:32:48.010843 arp who-has 211.30.229.171 tell 211.30.229.1 11:32:48.057425 arp who-has 211.30.227.157 tell 211.30.227.1 11:32:48.059150 arp who-has 211.30.200.28 tell 211.30.200.1 11:32:48.191482 arp who-has 211.30.84.48 tell 211.30.84.1 11:32:48.243904 arp who-has 211.30.225.247 tell 211.30.225.1 11:32:48.259387 arp who-has 211.30.226.41 tell 211.30.226.1 102 packets received by filter 0 packets dropped by kernel bsdi#
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On Fri, 2006-12-22 at 11:36 +1100, Mark Andrews wrote:
(Hint - how much smaller would the spam problem be if end users actually looked at their cable or DSL modem and wondered why the Tx/Rx lights were on steady even though nothing was apparently happening?)
Given the amount of noise on a cable modem flickering lights mean nothing.
My cable modem, and my Dad's, and my friends', flicker endlessly even though when the computers are are shutoff (OK, my wifi router is still on). The flicker isn't from outbound traffic, it's from incoming crap. -Jim P.
participants (12)
-
Alexander Harrowell -
Andy Davidson -
J. Oquendo -
Jeff Shultz -
Jim Popovitch -
Joseph S D Yao -
Mark Andrews -
Michael Painter -
Richard P. Welty -
Robert Bonomi -
Thomas Leavitt -
Valdis.Kletnieks＠vt.edu