In Canada they are sometimes referred to as c-loops. You could try that... But, they are hard to get.. And impossible to get repaired :). Mark -- Mark Segal Director, Network Planning FCI Broadband Tel: 905-284-4070 Fax: 416-987-4701 http://www.fcibroadband.com Futureway Communications Inc. is now FCI Broadband -----Original Message----- From: Temkin, David [mailto:temkin@sig.com] Sent: August 29, 2003 12:29 PM To: 'Austad, Jay'; nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: dry pair Order it as an "alarm circuit"... At least that's how VZ recognizes it in NY. -Dave -----Original Message----- From: Austad, Jay [mailto:JAustad@temgweb.com] Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 12:08 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: dry pair Does anyone know to go about getting Qwest or a CLEC to patch through a dry pair between two buildings connected to the same CO? When I called to order one, no one knew what I was talking about. -jay