Interpersonal skills needed for Network Engineers
Hello Everyone, I am looking for defining what are skills needed in people that will work in an ISP's operational/NOC environment as Network Engineers. In my humble experience, i have came across people that i just feel they are not right for such technical jobs, people would act and take their golden fingers to the devices without logic and others who has more of a structured approach to solving problems and thinking, some that will crank under pressure and just loose it and others who will act rationally. Please correct me if i am wrong and if you believe such skills could be gained by time/training? Maybe the above doesnt really need to be there for others in the development/engineering departments where more of studying and analysis skills are required, please correct me if i am wrong. Private msg me if needed. Thanks, Kim
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008, Kim Onnel wrote:
I am looking for defining what are skills needed in people that will work in an ISP's operational/NOC environment as Network Engineers.
In my humble experience, i have came across people that i just feel they are not right for such technical jobs, people would act and take their golden fingers to the devices without logic and others who has more of a structured approach to solving problems and thinking, some that will crank under pressure and just loose it and others who will act rationally.
Please correct me if i am wrong and if you believe such skills could be gained by time/training?
I think you're talking very generally about the 'cowboy' type of operators who will reboot first, and then troubleshoot if that doesn't fix it. There are also the territorial types who feel threatened in the face of outside ideas or questions. Speaking as a volatile loudmouth (in recovery), I do think that interpersonal skill training, or at least practice, is useful for folks to be able to inter-operate both with other people, and other network operators. The single most useful troubleshooting skill anyone can bring to the table is a good pair of ears and a willingness to use them. With that as a base, you can move on to good teamwork and best practices. As cliche as it may seem, I readily recommend 'Negotiating for Dummies' as reading for anyone who doesn't want to be the person that no one can work with. It works great when given as an anonymous gift, too. - billn
Kim Onnel wrote: <snip>
In my humble experience, i have came across people that i just feel they are not right for such technical jobs, people would act and take their golden fingers to the devices without logic and others who has more of a structured approach to solving problems and thinking, some that will crank under pressure and just loose it and others who will act rationally.
The Executive Summary:
You know those techs that are easy to understand, and communicate so effectively, almost alway seeing things your way ? Those are the sycophants, Jungian type "E's". You know those techs that always seem to be talking over your head, and telling you things don't work the way you think, always screaming caution ? Those are you *real* techs, Jungian type "I". Why can't most managers figure this out ? See: Alpha Male Syndrome, by our friends at Monster.com (Kate Ludeman, PhD, and Eddie Erlandson, MD) http://www.alphamalesyndrome.com/ :-P </noise><signal>
Proof read, and corrected. * sigh * time to call it a day. :-\ R. Irving wrote:
Kim Onnel wrote: <snip>
In my humble experience, i have came across people that i just feel they are not right for such technical jobs, people would act and take their golden fingers to the devices without logic and others who has more of a structured approach to solving problems and thinking, some that will crank under pressure and just loose it and others who will act rationally.
The Executive Summary:
You know those techs that are easy to understand, and communicate so effectively, almost always seeing things your way ?
Those are the sycophants, Jungian type "E's".
You know those techs that always seem to be talking over your head, and telling you things don't work the way you think, always screaming caution ?
Those are your *real* techs, Jungian type "I".
Why can't most managers figure this out ?
See: Alpha Male Syndrome, by our friends at Monster.com (Kate Ludeman, PhD, and Eddie Erlandson, MD)
http://www.alphamalesyndrome.com/
:-P
</noise><signal>
There is a topical tutorial for people attending nanog 42 sunday afternoon... http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0802/zwicky.html Bill Nash wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008, Kim Onnel wrote:
I am looking for defining what are skills needed in people that will work in an ISP's operational/NOC environment as Network Engineers.
In my humble experience, i have came across people that i just feel they are not right for such technical jobs, people would act and take their golden fingers to the devices without logic and others who has more of a structured approach to solving problems and thinking, some that will crank under pressure and just loose it and others who will act rationally.
Please correct me if i am wrong and if you believe such skills could be gained by time/training?
I think you're talking very generally about the 'cowboy' type of operators who will reboot first, and then troubleshoot if that doesn't fix it. There are also the territorial types who feel threatened in the face of outside ideas or questions.
Speaking as a volatile loudmouth (in recovery), I do think that interpersonal skill training, or at least practice, is useful for folks to be able to inter-operate both with other people, and other network operators. The single most useful troubleshooting skill anyone can bring to the table is a good pair of ears and a willingness to use them. With that as a base, you can move on to good teamwork and best practices.
As cliche as it may seem, I readily recommend 'Negotiating for Dummies' as reading for anyone who doesn't want to be the person that no one can work with. It works great when given as an anonymous gift, too.
- billn
'Hi, I'm Bill.. and I took down the network.' "Hi Bill!" - billn On Sat, 16 Feb 2008, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
There is a topical tutorial for people attending nanog 42 sunday afternoon...
http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0802/zwicky.html
Bill Nash wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008, Kim Onnel wrote:
I am looking for defining what are skills needed in people that will work in an ISP's operational/NOC environment as Network Engineers.
In my humble experience, i have came across people that i just feel they are not right for such technical jobs, people would act and take their golden fingers to the devices without logic and others who has more of a structured approach to solving problems and thinking, some that will crank under pressure and just loose it and others who will act rationally.
Please correct me if i am wrong and if you believe such skills could be gained by time/training?
I think you're talking very generally about the 'cowboy' type of operators who will reboot first, and then troubleshoot if that doesn't fix it. There are also the territorial types who feel threatened in the face of outside ideas or questions.
Speaking as a volatile loudmouth (in recovery), I do think that interpersonal skill training, or at least practice, is useful for folks to be able to inter-operate both with other people, and other network operators. The single most useful troubleshooting skill anyone can bring to the table is a good pair of ears and a willingness to use them. With that as a base, you can move on to good teamwork and best practices.
As cliche as it may seem, I readily recommend 'Negotiating for Dummies' as reading for anyone who doesn't want to be the person that no one can work with. It works great when given as an anonymous gift, too.
- billn
Can somebody please take Audio or Video captures if possible please. Thanks, Kim On Feb 17, 2008 2:11 AM, Joel Jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com> wrote:
There is a topical tutorial for people attending nanog 42 sunday afternoon...
http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0802/zwicky.html
Bill Nash wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008, Kim Onnel wrote:
I am looking for defining what are skills needed in people that will work in an ISP's operational/NOC environment as Network Engineers.
In my humble experience, i have came across people that i just feel they are not right for such technical jobs, people would act and take their
golden
fingers to the devices without logic and others who has more of a structured approach to solving problems and thinking, some that will crank under pressure and just loose it and others who will act rationally.
Please correct me if i am wrong and if you believe such skills could be gained by time/training?
I think you're talking very generally about the 'cowboy' type of operators who will reboot first, and then troubleshoot if that doesn't fix it. There are also the territorial types who feel threatened in the face of outside ideas or questions.
Speaking as a volatile loudmouth (in recovery), I do think that interpersonal skill training, or at least practice, is useful for folks to be able to inter-operate both with other people, and other network operators. The single most useful troubleshooting skill anyone can bring to the table is a good pair of ears and a willingness to use them. With that as a base, you can move on to good teamwork and best practices.
As cliche as it may seem, I readily recommend 'Negotiating for Dummies' as reading for anyone who doesn't want to be the person that no one can work with. It works great when given as an anonymous gift, too.
- billn
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 04:32:19 +0200 From: "Kim Onnel" <karim.adel@gmail.com> Sender: owner-nanog@merit.edu
Can somebody please take Audio or Video captures if possible please.
Unfortunately, the speaker's employer would not allow recording. Bummer! -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751
Kevin Oberman wrote:
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 04:32:19 +0200 From: "Kim Onnel" <karim.adel@gmail.com> Sender: owner-nanog@merit.edu
Can somebody please take Audio or Video captures if possible please.
Unfortunately, the speaker's employer would not allow recording. Bummer!
Personally I think that should mitigated as a basic requirement for all NANOG presentations. Not everyone can attend the meetings in person. Justin
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
There is a topical tutorial for people attending nanog 42 sunday afternoon...
To emphasize the OT but important point.. I wish medical doctors were taught this as well. Although a ghastly over-simplification, most M.D.'s any of us will ever meet are technicians. Very advanced and qualified ones, but technicians. They: 1. Analyze what the problem might be by examining sympthoms. 2. They debug, one by one, by likelihood. Analysis varies depending on the M.D. Debugging shouldn't. Some never learned how debugging works. One example is a friend of mine whose doctor tried to give 6 different medications at once to solve the unknown problem. My friend's question was, after asking why not try one by one (he wasn't near death, so this wasn't an emergency response situation): "What if my sympthoms go away, which medication(s) do you stop?" Some of us may be more open to examples from realms not relating to routers and switches. :) Gadi. -- *FART* -- Avi Freedman to Gadi Evron in a Chinese restaurant, Boston 2007.
participants (7)
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Bill Nash -
Gadi Evron -
Joel Jaeggli -
Justin Shore -
Kevin Oberman -
Kim Onnel -
R. Irving