From: Adam Rothschild [mailto:asr@latency.net] Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 11:23 AM
On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 02:34:35AM -0800, Roeland Meyer wrote:
DSL has always been a cheap, semi-reliable solution for people that didn't want to pay the money for a dedicated circuit.
This, I agree with.
DSL behaves like a dedicated circuit
Dedicated in what sense? "Always up" nature? Aggregation hierarchy / topology? Bandwidth, considering your provider might be _losing_ money with transit/ops/etc costs factored in, if you're using it al full line rate 24x7?
Well, all of the above, except that there is no way to tell if your upstream is losing money or not. Not if their market-communications folks know what they're doing and they're privately-held.
Additionally, you don't have to tune the link and it doesn't need to be hand-rebooted when the CSU/DSU drops (all the things they don't tell you about T1's).
What circuit-level fine tuning and rebooting do you speak of? Is the telco running Microsoft DACS Server(TM) in the CO? ;)
I'm speaking from having spent many nights and week-ends waiting for the telco to bring the line back up, after my CSU lost power/went down/died/etc. That's why we went with DSL (besides straight cost). Granted, after initial build, this didn't happen. Mainly, because the CSU never went down again.
But yeah, putting all your eggs in one basket could make for a nice single point of failure. Or calculated risk. Your call...
That's my point, small shops don't have much choice. Typical Inet start-ups are cases where headcount is far less than server count. Granted, most of the H/W is in a co-lo. <sigh> You guys just don't want to allow a small business to run their own data center, do you? Can't y'all understand that there are serious business reasons for a company to do so?
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of Roeland Meyer Sent: March 16, 2001 2:44 PM To: 'Adam Rothschild' Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: Broken Internet?
On Fri, Mar 16, 2001 at 02:34:35AM -0800, Roeland Meyer wrote: But yeah, putting all your eggs in one basket could make for a nice single point of failure. Or calculated risk. Your call...
That's my point, small shops don't have much choice. Typical Inet start-ups are cases where headcount is far less than server count. Granted, most of the H/W is in a co-lo.
Why do you think small shops (eg: us, but we are smaller than the average small shop) use colo? It strikes me as a lot cheaper to pay $500-1000/megabit/month to Exodus, AboveNet, Globix et al (my apologies to those from colo providers I didn't name, I know there are hundreds out there) rather than find a suitable facility, get a decent power setup, then you need to deal with ARIN, get yourself some transit providers, etc. Oh, and then you need some operational staff, too, to reboot your server if it dies, that type of thing. If all you're planning on doing is connecting your own rack or two's worth of servers, then you've just spent a lot more money building your own for little benefit. There's the time factor, too... Most colo providers will probably let you move in with all your hardware within a month, if not less. How long does it take to build a real data center?
<sigh> You guys just don't want to allow a small business to run their own data center, do you? Can't y'all understand that there are serious business reasons for a company to do so?
All right, I'm curious here. What do you define as "data center"? If you mean the facilities with redundant connectivity, diesel generators, enough UPSes to power the biggest power hogging thing you can find for six hours, etc, I'd like you to tell me how a small business can afford that. If, like some people, you define "data center" as a small wiring closet hooked up by one T1 (or, in your case, DSL, and you're not the first I've encountered with a DSL-connected "data center") to some random provider, then I don't think anyone has a problem with you running your own "data center", although I think your semantics could be argued, and since this is NANOG, will be argued for about 100 posts minimum. Vivien -- Vivien M. vivienm@dyndns.org Assistant System Administrator Dynamic DNS Network Services http://www.dyndns.org/
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Roeland Meyer -
Vivien M.