UN Panel Aims to End Internet Tug of War by July
My favorite quote(s) from this very brief article: "Right now, the most recognizable Internet governance body is a California-based non-profit company, the International Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)." "But developing countries want an international body, such as the U.N.'s International Telecommunication Union (ITU), to have control over governance -- from distributing Web site domains to fighting spam." http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=internetNews&storyID=2005-02-21T171326Z_01_N21644703_RTRIDST_0_NET-TECH-UN-DC.XML - ferg -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg@netzero.net or fergdawg@sbcglobal.net
the report itself is linked to from http://www.itu.int/wsis/wgig/index.html Scott ----
From owner-nanog@merit.edu Mon Feb 21 13:39:30 2005 X-Original-To: sob@newdev.harvard.edu Delivered-To: sob@newdev.harvard.edu Delivered-To: nanog-outgoing@trapdoor.merit.edu Delivered-To: nanog@trapdoor.merit.edu Delivered-To: nanog@segue.merit.edu Delivered-To: nanog@merit.edu X-UNTD-OriginStamp: AcganUYbgVGZ0C6nm/9IPZjpYFhzViOy3yko4/7Kg+gh8Jcz50VKiw== X-Originating-IP: [168.38.70.109] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "Fergie (Paul Ferguson)" <fergdawg@netzero.net> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 18:37:05 GMT To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: UN Panel Aims to End Internet Tug of War by July X-Mailer: WebMail Version 2.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-ContentStamp: 5:2:2409225524 X-MAIL-INFO:4d17cb9e9ec39e8e8f93a39e1bee17d7d75fd7b3ba9ee7d73ffeee03237747d74ebf7a8f1f6f7f2b67aa0a2ea787339be38f2bbbfacf4bbbbb2ebb7ec33b07bb4f9fcf1ad3c7f7bb3ada77db9aaa13df5eeeafcbcaf31793b7dbdf1e7b6b4a1e1ecb1e0b03735f1ee73e9bfb3e2e5a5a2e9b9bbb83ef9f3ffeee03237747d74ebf7a8f1f6f7f2b67aa0a2ea787333a73633a4ac3c34a7373eab74f1e Sender: owner-nanog@merit.edu Precedence: bulk Errors-To: owner-nanog-outgoing@merit.edu X-Loop: nanog
My favorite quote(s) from this very brief article: "Right now, the most recognizable Internet governance body is a California-based non-profit company, the International Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)." "But developing countries want an international body, such as the U.N.'s International Telecommunication Union (ITU), to have control over governance -- from distributing Web site domains to fighting spam." http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=internetNews&storyID=2005-02-21T171326Z_01_N21644703_RTRIDST_0_NET-TECH-UN-DC.XML - ferg -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg@netzero.net or fergdawg@sbcglobal.net
the report itself is linked to from http://www.itu.int/wsis/wgig/index.html
Many of you may find it more interesting and useful to read through and comment upon one or two of the working papers posted here: http://wgig.org/working-papers.html I would hope that people with special expertise in these areas might take the time to read one of these working papers to ensure that they don't have major inaccuracies. Remember, this is politics and in politics perception often equals reality. This is the list of topics they cover. - Administration of Internet names and IP addresses - Administration of the Root Server system - Peering and Interconnection - Telecommunications infrastructure, broadband access, convergence with NGN - Cyber security, cybercrime - Competition policy, liberalization, privatization and regulations - Multilingualization of Internet naming systems - Spam - Dispute Resolution - Security of network and information systems - Technical Standards - Affordable and universal access - Social dimensions and inclusion - VoIP - E-commerce - Consumer, user protection and privacy - Unlawful content and access protection - Intellectual Property Rights (Executive Summary) - Cultural and linguistic diversity - Education and human capacity building - National Policies and Regulations
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:22:54 +0000, Michael.Dillon@radianz.com <Michael.Dillon@radianz.com> wrote:
the report itself is linked to from http://www.itu.int/wsis/wgig/index.html
Many of you may find it more interesting and useful to read through and comment upon one or two of the working papers posted here:
A lot of the papers have major holes in them. But they are first inputs, dont represent any kind of consensus at the WGIG and are open for comment. So please do send in your comments. I have, and other people nanogers know (Bill Manning, Karl Auerbach etc) have as well Of operational interest - Do note one particular set of comments - such as the ones by Paul Wilson (DG of APNIC) ... the WGIG seems rather interested in a set of proposals by Houlin Zhao at ITU-T, proposals that in my opinion tend to treat IP addressing rather the same way as telephone numbering. The RIR's original responses to this are at http://www.nro.net --srs -- Suresh Ramasubramanian (ops.lists@gmail.com)
My favorite quote is: "All countries want to counter spam -- unsolicited commercial messages that can flood email accounts by the hundreds and burden the web with unwanted traffic." Especially in lite of the comment you posted and the fact that developing countries seem to be the major sources of SPAM these days. Of course, given all the good that the ITU has done for telecommunications and RF Spectrum control.... (NOT!) Finally, there's the issue of can the internet really be "governed". My inclination is not. ICANN certainly is not "governing" the internet. Sure, ICANN has some level of control over the creation of new TLDs and is responsible for handing out addresses and protocol/port numbers at the top level, but, ICANN doesn't approve or reject new protocols. They don't control how packets are routed at any real operational level. They don't set any real policies other than those for address allocation. Nor would they really be able to if they tried. Further, ICANN gets what little power it does have primarily from the consent of the network operational community and general agreement that stable operations within the ICANN framework is better than chaos. If it comes to a tug of war between ICANN and ITU, it will be interesting to see if anyone actually wins. How many operators will follow ICANN and how many will follow ITU? How many will simply start running a different Internet? How many other competing ANAs will develop in the process? Interesting times in the Chinese sense of the term. Owen
On Feb 21, 2005, at 1:55 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
Especially in lite of the comment you posted and the fact that developing countries seem to be the major sources of SPAM these days.
a) spam, not SPAM (which is a tasty luncheon meat from Hormel) b) s/sources/entry points/ The vast majority of spam is American in nature.
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:55:04 -0800, Owen DeLong wrote:
� My favorite quote is:
� "All countries want to counter spam -- unsolicited commercial messages that � can flood email accounts by the hundreds and burden the web with unwanted � traffic."
I'm intrigued at the failure to distinguish between the web and email, given that spam is a messaging phenomenon, not a publishing phenomenon. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking +1.408.246.8253 dcrocker �a t ... WE'VE MOVED to: �www.bbiw.net
On Tue, Feb 22, 2005 08:43:15AM +0900, Dave Crocker allegedly wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:55:04 -0800, Owen DeLong wrote:
? My favorite quote is:
? "All countries want to counter spam -- unsolicited commercial messages that ? can flood email accounts by the hundreds and burden the web with unwanted ? traffic."
I'm intrigued at the failure to distinguish between the web and email, given that spam is a messaging phenomenon, not a publishing phenomenon.
It's actually a failure to distinguish the web from the Internet.
Scott W Brim wrote:
On Tue, Feb 22, 2005 08:43:15AM +0900, Dave Crocker allegedly wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:55:04 -0800, Owen DeLong wrote:
? My favorite quote is:
? "All countries want to counter spam -- unsolicited commercial messages that ? can flood email accounts by the hundreds and burden the web with unwanted ? traffic."
I'm intrigued at the failure to distinguish between the web and email, given that spam is a messaging phenomenon, not a publishing phenomenon.
It's actually a failure to distinguish the web from the Internet.
Perhaps its time to give them the web so that we can have the internet back?
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:45:12 -0500, Scott W Brim wrote:
�>� I'm intrigued at the failure to distinguish between the web and �> �>� email, given that spam is a messaging phenomenon, not a publishing �>� phenomenon. �> � It's actually a failure to distinguish the web from the Internet
i was probably too cryptic. yes, they are using the term 'web' to mean 'the internet'. the problem is that professional writing needs to be careful, and a failure at such a basic level as using web to apply to email does not bode well for the utility of the article... d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking +1.408.246.8253 dcrocker �a t ... WE'VE MOVED to: �www.bbiw.net
Dave, as you're in Apricot anyway .. there's an APDIP session today evening that's discussing these ITU/WGIG issues. http://igov.apdip.net/events/apricot2005/document_view UNDP-APDIP Session@Apricot 2005/APNIC 19 in partnership with Internet Governance Task Force of Japan Date: Tuesday 22nd February 16:00-17:30 Venue: Room B1 on 2F, Kyoto International Conference Hall (KICH), Kyoto, Japan On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:06:11 +0900, Dave Crocker <dhc2@dcrocker.net> wrote:
the problem is that professional writing needs to be careful, and a failure at such a basic level as using web to apply to email does not bode well for the utility of the article...
When I hear Robert Mugabe talk about internet governance I don't really get the impression that he has the interests of the people of Zimbabwe at heart. joelja On Tue, 22 Feb 2005, Dave Crocker wrote:
On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:45:12 -0500, Scott W Brim wrote:
> I'm intrigued at the failure to distinguish between the web and > > email, given that spam is a messaging phenomenon, not a publishing > phenomenon. > It's actually a failure to distinguish the web from the Internet
i was probably too cryptic. yes, they are using the term 'web' to mean 'the internet'.
the problem is that professional writing needs to be careful, and a failure at such a basic level as using web to apply to email does not bode well for the utility of the article...
d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking +1.408.246.8253 dcrocker a t ... WE'VE MOVED to: www.bbiw.net
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli Unix Consulting joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu GPG Key Fingerprint: 5C6E 0104 BAF0 40B0 5BD3 C38B F000 35AB B67F 56B2
If the UN wants control of the INET WE invented. Let them build their own. Fergie (Paul Ferguson) wrote:
My favorite quote(s) from this very brief article:
"Right now, the most recognizable Internet governance body is a California-based non-profit company, the International Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)."
"But developing countries want an international body, such as the U.N.'s International Telecommunication Union (ITU), to have control over governance -- from distributing Web site domains to fighting spam."
- ferg
-- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg@netzero.net or fergdawg@sbcglobal.net
-- My "Foundation" verse: Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. -- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape" CDTT (Certified Duct Tape Technician) Linux user #322099 Machines: 206822 256638 276825 http://counter.li.org/
yOn Thu, 24 Feb 2005, William Warren wrote:
If the UN wants control of the INET WE invented. Let them build their own.
I think people get confused about who the stake holders in internet operation/governance really are... certainly ICANN allways was when I was actively observing it. The stake holders with the most to lose are ordinary enduser consumers of interenet services. They just want to get their work / entertainment / communication done, and to the extent that technocrats, bureaucrats , crimnals , extremely greedy businesses , and rogue governments setup barriers that impede them from doing that they lose.
Fergie (Paul Ferguson) wrote:
My favorite quote(s) from this very brief article:
"Right now, the most recognizable Internet governance body is a California-based non-profit company, the International Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)."
"But developing countries want an international body, such as the U.N.'s International Telecommunication Union (ITU), to have control over governance -- from distributing Web site domains to fighting spam."
- ferg
-- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg@netzero.net or fergdawg@sbcglobal.net
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joel Jaeggli Unix Consulting joelja@darkwing.uoregon.edu GPG Key Fingerprint: 5C6E 0104 BAF0 40B0 5BD3 C38B F000 35AB B67F 56B2
participants (12)
-
Dave Crocker -
Fergie (Paul Ferguson) -
Joe Maimon -
Joel Jaeggli -
John Payne -
Michael.Dillon＠radianz.com -
Owen DeLong -
Scott W Brim -
sob＠harvard.edu -
Stephane Bortzmeyer -
Suresh Ramasubramanian -
William Warren