Creating exchanges [Was: Re: MAE-East - 30%]
This is also the reason why we [collectively] are encouraging the creation of local exchange points outside of North America. The situation where two providers in The Phillipines (for example) have to back-haul traffic to the US to exchange bits is contributing to the overall problem. This needs to be fixed, but it certainly won't happen overnight, primarily due to the economic situation in the general locale. The possibility to correct this problem increases as deregulation happens. - paul At 02:08 PM 10/9/96 -0700, Michael Dillon wrote:
Isn't this the reason that MAE-East is at 30%, i.e. there are now many private interconnects between tier 1 NSP's to offload traffic from major exchanges like MAE-East?
Not to mention that MAE-East is no longer the only major interconnect, a fact that seems to be taking some time to work it's way into net.mythology.
In article <2.2.32.19961011001731.006e871c@lint.cisco.com> Paul Ferguson wrote:
This is also the reason why we [collectively] are encouraging the creation of local exchange points outside of North America. The situation where two providers in The Phillipines (for example) have to back-haul traffic to the US to exchange bits is contributing to the overall problem.
A very logical place for a CIX-like open interconnect in the Asia/Pacific region is Guam, because large quantities of fiber (including most of the fiber to/from North America) transits Guam. At least one ISP (UUnet) has an operational site on Guam shown on their currently online network map, no doubt because they have clue about where the fibre runs.
This needs to be fixed, but it certainly won't happen overnight, primarily due to the economic situation in the general locale. The possibility to correct this problem increases as deregulation happens.
This is another reason to use Guam for an interconnect. Guam is part of the USA and so telecommunications is already deregulated. (A side benefit for US citizens living on Guam is that Guam is the only place in the universe where one's income is not subject to US Federal Income Tax, go figure :-). Btw, Singapore shares the "lots of fibre" property, but has significantly more regulation of telecommunications (and ISPs) than Guam does. Ran rja@cisco.com
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Ran Atkinson wrote:
This is another reason to use Guam for an interconnect. Guam is part of the USA and so telecommunications is already deregulated. (A side benefit for US citizens living on Guam is that Guam is the only place in the universe where one's income is not subject to US Federal Income Tax, go figure :-).
Hello Fellow Electronic Colleagues: <looking around a room> Can anyone say Hawaii? :) Best, Robert Mathews. ICICX. ------
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Robert Mathews-ICICX wrote:
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Ran Atkinson wrote:
This is another reason to use Guam for an interconnect. Guam is part of the USA and so telecommunications is already deregulated. (A side benefit for US citizens living on Guam is that Guam is the only place in the universe where one's income is not subject to US Federal Income Tax, go figure :-).
Hello Fellow Electronic Colleagues: <looking around a room> Can anyone say Hawaii? :)
This is what we need from NANOG. More interconnects around the US. And maybe there should be a WNOG (world) :) To help get things running around the world. I recieved an email from a company in Switzerland and they say they are paying about 1,000,000 ($US) for their 'two' T1s to the internet per year. If there are more open exchange points, less hops to get somewhere, the net might become nicer. (no I don't mean using ATM to make it look like less hops.) Christian
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Christian Nielsen wrote:
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Robert Mathews-ICICX wrote:
Hello Fellow Electronic Colleagues:
<looking around a room> Can anyone say Hawaii? :)
This is what we need from NANOG. More interconnects around the US. And maybe there should be a WNOG (world) :) To help get things running around the world. I recieved an email from a company in Switzerland and they say they are paying about 1,000,000 ($US) for their 'two' T1s to the internet per year. If there are more open exchange points, less hops to get somewhere, the net might become nicer. (no I don't mean using ATM to make it look like less hops.)
Christian
We look forward to doing our part in such an effort... Best, Robert. ICICX. ------
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Ran Atkinson wrote:
This is another reason to use Guam for an interconnect. Guam is part of the USA and so telecommunications is already deregulated. (A side benefit for US citizens living on Guam is that Guam is the only place in the universe where one's income is not subject to US Federal Income Tax, go figure :-)>
I thought residents of Puerto Rico paid no U.S. FIT
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Jim J. Steinhardt wrote:
On Fri, 11 Oct 1996, Ran Atkinson wrote:
This is another reason to use Guam for an interconnect. Guam is part of the USA and so telecommunications is already deregulated. (A side benefit for US citizens living on Guam is that Guam is the only place in the universe where one's income is not subject to US Federal Income Tax, go figure :-)>
I thought residents of Puerto Rico paid no U.S. FIT
Correct, they do not, we pay it for them. :-) Nathan Stratton CEO, NetRail, Inc. Tracking the future today! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Phone (703)524-4800 NetRail, Inc. Fax (703)534-5033 2007 N. 15 St. Suite 5 Email sales@netrail.net Arlington, Va. 22201 WWW http://www.netrail.net/ Access: (703) 524-4802 guest --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." Matthew 6:34
From: Ran Atkinson <rja@cisco.com> A very logical place for a CIX-like open interconnect in the Asia/Pacific region is Guam, because large quantities of fiber (including most of the fiber to/from North America) transits Guam. At least one ISP (UUnet) has an operational site on Guam shown on their currently online network map, no doubt because they have clue about where the fibre runs. Actually, almost all of that fiber comes up on one side of the island, through the repeater hut, and then goes back down into the sea. As of three years ago when I was actively researching the possibilities for this kind of thing (and setting up IIKK, now PSInet Japan in Tokyo), there was almost no bandwidth groomed out of the trans-pac or regional cables as they went through Guam. If things have changed since then I'd be interestied to know; as it greatly affects whether Guam is a "logical" place to put an AP-CIX. 'Course, if everyone who joins decides to run a full OC12 or OC48 or whatever they run on a single strand of glass in one of those cables to the island, there wouldn't be any need for grooming out bandwidth out there? ---Rob
Hi, Robert E. Seastrom wrote:
If things have changed since then I'd be interestied to know; as it greatly affects whether Guam is a "logical" place to put an AP-CIX.
How about the ISPs in Guam, and the University of Guam?
'Course, if everyone who joins decides to run a full OC12 or OC48 or whatever they run on a single strand of glass in one of those cables to the island, there wouldn't be any need for grooming out bandwidth out there?
Well, if they would split it out later for connections to an exchange point. Kinda ironic that the cable has to "split" out just for the purpose of "mixing" all the signals together. I think this Guam-based NAP would make an interesting project, especially for people like us who need it. :) Or, if the Guam folks decide they need a lot of bandwidth, they'll have it. -- miguel a.l. paraz <map@iphil.net> iphil communications, makati city, ph PGP ID: 0x43F0D011 http://www.iphil.net isp/intranet design & implementation
From: "Miguel A.L. Paraz" <map@iphil.net> Robert E. Seastrom wrote:
If things have changed since then I'd be interestied to know; as it greatly affects whether Guam is a "logical" place to put an AP-CIX.
How about the ISPs in Guam, and the University of Guam? and the telco on Guam and the X.25 carrier, and any private lines that run in there. Sure. There _is_ _some_ bandwidth broken out on the island. Enough to make it a reasonable place for an AP CIX? My recollection is "no".
'Course, if everyone who joins decides to run a full OC12 or OC48 or whatever they run on a single strand of glass in one of those cables to the island, there wouldn't be any need for grooming out bandwidth out there?
Well, if they would split it out later for connections to an exchange point. Kinda ironic that the cable has to "split" out just for the purpose of "mixing" all the signals together. Well, that's live in the TDM muxing world... :) I think this Guam-based NAP would make an interesting project, especially for people like us who need it. :) Or, if the Guam folks decide they need a lot of bandwidth, they'll have it. Oh, I think it would make an "interesting" project, all right. Let's just say that having dealt with telcos and internal telco politics, the notion of trying to convince one or more of the carriers that they should install muxing gear there is probably an 18 month to two year project. And God help you if they find out it's to support greater connectivity for "that internet thing". Stuff like Vocaltech has gotten them terrified anyway; you can hardly expect them to cooperate in international high bandwidth internet connections if by simply doing nothing they put the brakes on the growth of this "thing", that they do not understand but is by their perception threatening to eat their lunch. Telco Disease -- Just Say No. And no, I don't have a better idea, except to examine tariffs and figure out where it is relatively cheap to run circuits in the pac rim -- you might be surprised that due to local influences like monopoly telcos, the pricing structure has little to do with bandwidth x distance. Hong Kong looks slightly promising except for the slight problem of next summer. Singapore is probably a no-go because of how anal the government is there; all we need is an AP CIX with a host government enforced AUP that says "no dirty gifs, no politicallly unacceptable speech, etc". Look at the cable maps again and figure out who has enough bandwidth to support our needs and then... start calling for pricing. Don't forget to get pricing for both halves of the circuit. :) ---Rob
Hi, Paul Ferguson wrote:
This is also the reason why we [collectively] are encouraging the creation of local exchange points outside of North America. The situation where two providers in The Phillipines (for example) have to back-haul traffic to the US to exchange bits is contributing to the overall problem. This needs to be fixed, but it certainly won't happen overnight, primarily due to the economic situation in the general locale.
Yeah, we are eagerly awaiting that. Though, OTOH, since our bandwidths are just a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the US networks, varying from 64K to E1. And, in our case, the economic factor is secondary to political -- we CAN pay for the lines, but various inter-telco factors prevent successful interconnection of all interested parties.
The possibility to correct this problem increases as deregulation happens.
Yes, for the benefit of the NANOG community's info, the first IX is being build by PLDT (Philippine Long Distance Telephone), which wouldn't probably even be thought of if they remained the monopoly carrier (monopoly was broken in 1992). Of course, vestiges of their former dominance remain, especially in the analog phone line department. -- miguel a.l. paraz <map@iphil.net> iphil communications, makati city, ph PGP ID: 0x43F0D011 http://www.iphil.net isp/intranet design & implementation
participants (8)
-
Christian Nielsen -
Jim J. Steinhardt -
Miguel A.L. Paraz -
Nathan Stratton -
Paul Ferguson -
Ran Atkinson -
Robert E. Seastrom -
Robert Mathews-ICICX