Apple Caching Server question
I saw the apple caching server mentioned on an earlier thread. Is this appropriate/functional/scaleable enough to implement as an ISP? It is an intriguing idea. From the docs I could find, I couldn't tell if it was only geared towards home / small business or if it could scale up to handle ISP level traffic. thanks, Lane
On 1/13/17 5:43 AM, lane.powers@swat.coop wrote:
I saw the apple caching server mentioned on an earlier thread. Is this appropriate/functional/scaleable enough to implement as an ISP? It is an intriguing idea. From the docs I could find, I couldn't tell if it was only geared towards home / small business or if it could scale up to handle ISP level traffic.
It's a feature of macos server. You do get to register prefix with apple, but I don't imagine colocating a mac mini is isp level traffic. That said as714 peers extensively https://www.peeringdb.com/net/3554 so picking them up works too.
thanks, Lane
There are far more ISPs with less than 10G of total traffic than ISPs with more than 10G of traffic. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "joel jaeggli" <joelja@bogus.com> To: "lane powers" <lane.powers@swat.coop>, nanog@nanog.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2017 10:45:08 AM Subject: Re: Apple Caching Server question On 1/13/17 5:43 AM, lane.powers@swat.coop wrote:
I saw the apple caching server mentioned on an earlier thread. Is this appropriate/functional/scaleable enough to implement as an ISP? It is an intriguing idea. From the docs I could find, I couldn't tell if it was only geared towards home / small business or if it could scale up to handle ISP level traffic.
It's a feature of macos server. You do get to register prefix with apple, but I don't imagine colocating a mac mini is isp level traffic. That said as714 peers extensively https://www.peeringdb.com/net/3554 so picking them up works too.
thanks, Lane
lane.powers@swat.coop wrote on 1/13/2017 7:43 AM:
I saw the apple caching server mentioned on an earlier thread. Is this appropriate/functional/scaleable enough to implement as an ISP? It is an intriguing idea. From the docs I could find, I couldn't tell if it was only geared towards home / small business or if it could scale up to handle ISP level traffic.
thanks, Lane
I have no experience with the Apple caching service specifically, but I have used Apple products (including some of their server software) for decades. Apple used to make mac mini models exclusively for server use. Their low power draw and relatively high density makes them an interesting choice for those that don't mind using "desktop grade" hardware for a project. There are some folks that even make rack-mount solutions for the Mac mini and Mac pro (search for RackMac). That said, my experience with several mac minis is that you will have at least one fault that will put them out of production (dead PSU, faulty HDD, dead mainboard) in a 2-3 year period when ran 24/7. With Unix OS, a gigabit ethernet port, SSD, and i5 or i7, I would expect a mac mini to be as fast or faster than most other network appliances one might purchase. If one wanted something beefier, a mac pro would probably offer some expandability (on board dual 1gbps NICs + six 20Gbps thunderbolt 2 ports). I would see why one might be curious, especially if this could cache the IOS updates used for all those tablets and other iDevices folks purchase from Apple.
We have been using this: http://qwilt.com/ It does all the Apple and IOS caching and is built for the ISP level and then some. On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Blake Hudson <blake@ispn.net> wrote:
lane.powers@swat.coop wrote on 1/13/2017 7:43 AM:
I saw the apple caching server mentioned on an earlier thread. Is this appropriate/functional/scaleable enough to implement as an ISP? It is an intriguing idea. From the docs I could find, I couldn't tell if it was only geared towards home / small business or if it could scale up to handle ISP level traffic.
thanks, Lane
I have no experience with the Apple caching service specifically, but I have used Apple products (including some of their server software) for decades. Apple used to make mac mini models exclusively for server use. Their low power draw and relatively high density makes them an interesting choice for those that don't mind using "desktop grade" hardware for a project. There are some folks that even make rack-mount solutions for the Mac mini and Mac pro (search for RackMac). That said, my experience with several mac minis is that you will have at least one fault that will put them out of production (dead PSU, faulty HDD, dead mainboard) in a 2-3 year period when ran 24/7.
With Unix OS, a gigabit ethernet port, SSD, and i5 or i7, I would expect a mac mini to be as fast or faster than most other network appliances one might purchase. If one wanted something beefier, a mac pro would probably offer some expandability (on board dual 1gbps NICs + six 20Gbps thunderbolt 2 ports).
I would see why one might be curious, especially if this could cache the IOS updates used for all those tablets and other iDevices folks purchase from Apple.
-- [image: email-signature-logo] <http://www.adelphi.edu/> *Fred Hicks* Director of Network Communications Information Technology hicks@adelphi.edu T 516.877.3338
Maybe you can help.sell the product because that website doesn't do much in terms of selling the product. What does it do and why would we use it? On Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 8:29 PM Fred Hicks <hicks@adelphi.edu> wrote:
We have been using this:
It does all the Apple and IOS caching and is built for the ISP level and then some.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Blake Hudson <blake@ispn.net> wrote:
lane.powers@swat.coop wrote on 1/13/2017 7:43 AM:
I saw the apple caching server mentioned on an earlier thread. Is this appropriate/functional/scaleable enough to implement as an ISP? It is an intriguing idea. From the docs I could find, I couldn't tell if it was only geared towards home / small business or if it could scale up to handle ISP level traffic.
thanks, Lane
I have no experience with the Apple caching service specifically, but I have used Apple products (including some of their server software) for decades. Apple used to make mac mini models exclusively for server use. Their low power draw and relatively high density makes them an interesting choice for those that don't mind using "desktop grade" hardware for a project. There are some folks that even make rack-mount solutions for the Mac mini and Mac pro (search for RackMac). That said, my experience with several mac minis is that you will have at least one fault that will put them out of production (dead PSU, faulty HDD, dead mainboard) in a 2-3 year period when ran 24/7.
With Unix OS, a gigabit ethernet port, SSD, and i5 or i7, I would expect a mac mini to be as fast or faster than most other network appliances one might purchase. If one wanted something beefier, a mac pro would probably offer some expandability (on board dual 1gbps NICs + six 20Gbps thunderbolt 2 ports).
I would see why one might be curious, especially if this could cache the IOS updates used for all those tablets and other iDevices folks purchase from Apple.
-- [image: email-signature-logo] <http://www.adelphi.edu/> *Fred Hicks* Director of Network Communications Information Technology hicks@adelphi.edu T 516.877.3338
They sell transparent caching, works great and we've been using it for a few years. Not cheap on the CAPX side but it sure does work. I deliver 50% of all Netflix traffic while never hitting my transit links, Apple is even higher and windows updates is are near the 97% number. The great thing outside of cutting down on transit traffic is the increase speeds from serving it from within my network. The support folks rock and take care of everything, we haven't touched it since we racked it up. Simple 1u Dell server with 10g nics, we currently just port mirror to it and let it do its thing. I can share more if needed as well. Luke Sent from my iPad
Luke Guillory Network Operations Manager Tel: 985.536.1212 Fax: 985.536.0300 Email: lguillory@reservetele.com Reserve Telecommunications 100 RTC Dr Reserve, LA 70084 _________________________________________________________________________________________________ Disclaimer: The information transmitted, including attachments, is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material which should not disseminate, distribute or be copied. Please notify Luke Guillory immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Luke Guillory therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. . On Jan 13, 2017, at 11:07 PM, Cody Grosskopf <codygrosskopf@gmail.com> wrote:
Maybe you can help.sell the product because that website doesn't do much in terms of selling the product. What does it do and why would we use it?
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017, 8:29 PM Fred Hicks <hicks@adelphi.edu> wrote:
We have been using this:
It does all the Apple and IOS caching and is built for the ISP level and then some.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 12:25 PM, Blake Hudson <blake@ispn.net> wrote:
lane.powers@swat.coop wrote on 1/13/2017 7:43 AM:
I saw the apple caching server mentioned on an earlier thread. Is this appropriate/functional/scaleable enough to implement as an ISP? It is an intriguing idea. From the docs I could find, I couldn't tell if it was only geared towards home / small business or if it could scale up to handle ISP level traffic.
thanks, Lane
I have no experience with the Apple caching service specifically, but I have used Apple products (including some of their server software) for decades. Apple used to make mac mini models exclusively for server use. Their low power draw and relatively high density makes them an interesting choice for those that don't mind using "desktop grade" hardware for a project. There are some folks that even make rack-mount solutions for the Mac mini and Mac pro (search for RackMac). That said, my experience with several mac minis is that you will have at least one fault that will put them out of production (dead PSU, faulty HDD, dead mainboard) in a 2-3 year period when ran 24/7.
With Unix OS, a gigabit ethernet port, SSD, and i5 or i7, I would expect a mac mini to be as fast or faster than most other network appliances one might purchase. If one wanted something beefier, a mac pro would probably offer some expandability (on board dual 1gbps NICs + six 20Gbps thunderbolt 2 ports).
I would see why one might be curious, especially if this could cache the IOS updates used for all those tablets and other iDevices folks purchase from Apple.
-- [image: email-signature-logo] <http://www.adelphi.edu/> *Fred Hicks* Director of Network Communications Information Technology hicks@adelphi.edu T 516.877.3338
On 14/01/2017, at 6:25 am, Blake Hudson <blake@ispn.net> wrote:
lane.powers@swat.coop wrote on 1/13/2017 7:43 AM:
I saw the apple caching server mentioned on an earlier thread. Is this appropriate/functional/scaleable enough to implement as an ISP? It is an intriguing idea. From the docs I could find, I couldn't tell if it was only geared towards home / small business or if it could scale up to handle ISP level traffic.
thanks, Lane
I have no experience with the Apple caching service specifically, but I have used Apple products (including some of their server software) for decades. Apple used to make mac mini models exclusively for server use. Their low power draw and relatively high density makes them an interesting choice for those that don't mind using "desktop grade" hardware for a project. There are some folks that even make rack-mount solutions for the Mac mini and Mac pro (search for RackMac). That said, my experience with several mac minis is that you will have at least one fault that will put them out of production (dead PSU, faulty HDD, dead mainboard) in a 2-3 year period when ran 24/7.
With Unix OS, a gigabit ethernet port, SSD, and i5 or i7, I would expect a mac mini to be as fast or faster than most other network appliances one might purchase. If one wanted something beefier, a mac pro would probably offer some expandability (on board dual 1gbps NICs + six 20Gbps thunderbolt 2 ports).
I would see why one might be curious, especially if this could cache the IOS updates used for all those tablets and other iDevices folks purchase from Apple.
Those dual Mac Mini 1U rack-mount cases are great! Two of the quad-core 'server' versions of the Minis gave quite a bit of punch for only 1RU @ 300mm deep. I have a couple of these types of builds deployed for VoIP services in different DCs, both with auto failover from one Mini to the other. But in the 6 years they've been operation we've never had any failure requiring use of the failover machines :) Re the Apple Caching Server - I don't believe that will work at the ISP level. My understanding is that the clients requesting their updates are redirected (by Apple's own servers) to the caching server only if the caching server and the requesting client both appear (from Apple's perspective) to originate from behind the same (NAT'd) public IP address. Pete
On Jan 16, 2017, at 5:20 PM, Pete Mundy <pete@fiberphone.co.nz> wrote:
Those dual Mac Mini 1U rack-mount cases are great! Two of the quad-core 'server' versions of the Minis gave quite a bit of punch for only 1RU @ 300mm deep.
I have a couple of these types of builds deployed for VoIP services in different DCs, both with auto failover from one Mini to the other. But in the 6 years they've been operation we've never had any failure requiring use of the failover machines :)
Re the Apple Caching Server - I don't believe that will work at the ISP level. My understanding is that the clients requesting their updates are redirected (by Apple's own servers) to the caching server only if the caching server and the requesting client both appear (from Apple's perspective) to originate from behind the same (NAT'd) public IP address.
Pete
I haven't ever tried to do multiple public IPs (I only enable caching server once inside my home network as a test), but it looks like from the settings window that it is possible to have more than one public IP using your cache. http://imgur.com/eBT7IyX When the "serve clients with public addresses: on other networks" configuration is enabled, "client configuration" button gives generated DNS records which were also mentioned elsewhere in this thread (_aaplcache._tcp 259200.<dnssearchname> TXT record per network) Theodore Baschak - AS395089 - Hextet Systems https://ciscodude.net/ - https://hextet.systems/ http://mbix.ca/
On 17/01/2017, at 12:47 pm, Theodore Baschak <theodore@ciscodude.net> wrote:
I haven't ever tried to do multiple public IPs (I only enable caching server once inside my home network as a test), but it looks like from the settings window that it is possible to have more than one public IP using your cache. http://imgur.com/eBT7IyX
<snip>
Interesting! Thanks Theodore for pointing that out. It's been almost a year since I investigated caching server, and they've obviously extended the functionality since then (I've not seen that settings panel before). In that case I retract my statement about it not being suitable for use at an ISP level. Perhaps it is after all! :) Pete
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204675 Content types supported by the Caching service Justin Wilson j2sw@mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman Internet Exchange - Peering - Distributed Fabric
On Jan 16, 2017, at 6:20 PM, Pete Mundy <pete@fiberphone.co.nz> wrote:
On 14/01/2017, at 6:25 am, Blake Hudson <blake@ispn.net> wrote:
lane.powers@swat.coop wrote on 1/13/2017 7:43 AM:
I saw the apple caching server mentioned on an earlier thread. Is this appropriate/functional/scaleable enough to implement as an ISP? It is an intriguing idea. From the docs I could find, I couldn't tell if it was only geared towards home / small business or if it could scale up to handle ISP level traffic.
thanks, Lane
I have no experience with the Apple caching service specifically, but I have used Apple products (including some of their server software) for decades. Apple used to make mac mini models exclusively for server use. Their low power draw and relatively high density makes them an interesting choice for those that don't mind using "desktop grade" hardware for a project. There are some folks that even make rack-mount solutions for the Mac mini and Mac pro (search for RackMac). That said, my experience with several mac minis is that you will have at least one fault that will put them out of production (dead PSU, faulty HDD, dead mainboard) in a 2-3 year period when ran 24/7.
With Unix OS, a gigabit ethernet port, SSD, and i5 or i7, I would expect a mac mini to be as fast or faster than most other network appliances one might purchase. If one wanted something beefier, a mac pro would probably offer some expandability (on board dual 1gbps NICs + six 20Gbps thunderbolt 2 ports).
I would see why one might be curious, especially if this could cache the IOS updates used for all those tablets and other iDevices folks purchase from Apple.
Those dual Mac Mini 1U rack-mount cases are great! Two of the quad-core 'server' versions of the Minis gave quite a bit of punch for only 1RU @ 300mm deep.
I have a couple of these types of builds deployed for VoIP services in different DCs, both with auto failover from one Mini to the other. But in the 6 years they've been operation we've never had any failure requiring use of the failover machines :)
Re the Apple Caching Server - I don't believe that will work at the ISP level. My understanding is that the clients requesting their updates are redirected (by Apple's own servers) to the caching server only if the caching server and the requesting client both appear (from Apple's perspective) to originate from behind the same (NAT'd) public IP address.
Pete
participants (11)
-
Blake Hudson -
Cody Grosskopf -
Fred Hicks -
joel jaeggli -
Justin Wilson -
Lane Powers -
lane.powers＠swat.coop
-
Luke Guillory -
Mike Hammett -
Pete Mundy -
Theodore Baschak