RE: On Internet and social responsibility
|> From: measl@mfn.org [mailto:measl@mfn.org] |> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 10:01 AM |> |> On Fri, 14 Sep 2001, Vadim Antonov wrote: |> |> > Guys, why should a North American provider give a place for this |> > propaganda? |> |> Maybe becuase they believe that censorship of opposing |> opinions is BAD? Actually, John Barryhill, on the /ICANN/DNSO/GA list, pointed out that there are a few domain registrations where the registrar accepted registration from denizens of the "proscribed countries" list. That registrar, "Register.Com" in this case, is technically in violation of the law. My guess is that, they never checked the law, or that list, in the first place. As US companies, there are certain individuals and countries that we are not allowed to do business with. Until now, the high-tech community has taken those laws too lightly. We shouldn't have residents of Libya, for example, on our client/customer list at all. Routing traffic to those countries shouldn't be an issue either. It simply shouldn't be done, by a US-based company. These proscription lists have been around for over 10 years. How many of us are violating it without knowlege? BTW, all of us that have our corporate charters from any part of the US are effected by this. Willful violations can carry some severe penalties. |> > Call FBI, have them trace the connections of whoever pays for |> > that site. |> |> And do what exactly? They have every right to speak, even |> if you don't happen to like the message. Actually, they don't. The law says so. Personally, I have no problems with US State telling me I can't do business with terrorists. Do you? I actually think that it's nice that US State is willing to identify, with verification, terrorist supporting countries, so that I can chose to avoid doing business with them. It helps a lot when I can point to a US gov directive prohibiting me from doing business with them. They can't sue me for discriminatory practices because I'm following the law. On the flip-side, those of you that have such undiscovered liabilities can exepect to hear from our government sometime. It is time to weed through the customer/client lists folks. -- IANAL = I Am Not A Lawyer. Before taking legal action based on anything I do, say, or write, you are strongly encouraged to seek the advice of an attorney. -- R O E L A N D M J M E Y E R Managing Director Morgan Hill Software Company tel: +1 925 373 3954 cel: +1 925 352 3615 fax: +1 925 373 9781 http://www.mhsc.com
On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Roeland Meyer wrote:
Personally, I have no problems with US State telling me I can't do business with terrorists. Do you?
Absolutely I do. I would have no problem with the USG placing people/countries/whatever on lists that I could use as a reference to make a *volutary* decision as to whether I wanted to do business with them, but to proscribe it is wrong. First of all, I may not necessarily agree with the USG on all of these "entries", secondly, the lists are obviously not compiled in a manner designed solely to cut of the "bad guys". For example, we have China as a "most favored nation". Right there the whole idea of an impartial list falls apart... Aside from the impartiality issue, I do not believe that the USG has a constitutional right to forbid me from engaging any person/place/thing in an otherwise lawful transaction.
-- R O E L A N D M J M E Y E R Managing Director Morgan Hill Software Company tel: +1 925 373 3954 cel: +1 925 352 3615 fax: +1 925 373 9781 http://www.mhsc.com
-- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... --------------------------------------------------------------------
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 <snip> Aside from the impartiality issue, I do not believe that the USG has a constitutional right to forbid me from engaging any person/place/thing in an otherwise lawful transaction. </snip> It's nice that you don't believe it, that doesn't change the fact that they do have the right. (Hint: see crypto export laws for case law) Regards, Matt - -- Matt Levine @Home: matt@deliver3.com @Work: matt@easynews.com ICQ : 17080004 PGP : http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0D04CF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com> iQA/AwUBO6OZQcp0j1NsDQTPEQI7qwCglLt1YN2kMUKLpWaii5IbC578FxkAmwYm TdgsDdIuOTxUoJZClxC6vaHh =5BLC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Sat, 15 Sep 2001, Matt Levine wrote:
<snip> Aside from the impartiality issue, I do not believe that the USG has a constitutional right to forbid me from engaging any person/place/thing in an otherwise lawful transaction. </snip>
It's nice that you don't believe it, that doesn't change the fact that they do have the right. (Hint: see crypto export laws for case law)
The fact that a court may have ruled that this is constitutionally permissable does not make it so, it merely makes it "legal". Remember Jim Crow. -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@mfn.org If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they should give serious consideration towards setting a better example: Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate... This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers, associates, or others. Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the first place... --------------------------------------------------------------------
participants (3)
-
Matt Levine -
measl＠mfn.org -
Roeland Meyer