Fletcher writes:
From: Fletcher E Kittredge <fkittred@sss1.gwi.net> To: nanog@merit.edu CC: gwi-network@sss1.gwi.net Subject: Cisco's CNR vs ISC Bind/DHCP Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:02:37 -0500
We are working here with the hypothesis that Cisco's CNR product is a lamer and inferior in quality to the Internet Software Consortium's open source DNS and DHCP software. Is this a generally accepted hypothesis, or are we off in the weeds (again) by ourselves on this one?
thanks! fletcher
Well, Fletcher, considering that you probably don't know anything about the product, do you really feel it necessary to publicly bash it? On what information to you base your bold assertion? Would you appreciate it if people had similar assumptions about: http://www.gwi.net/ ??...... Go to: http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/cisco/mkt/enm/cap/cnr/index.shtml and download a free (limited-time) copy of CNR to check it out. -rb ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Fletcher writes:
From: Fletcher E Kittredge <fkittred@sss1.gwi.net> To: nanog@merit.edu CC: gwi-network@sss1.gwi.net Subject: Cisco's CNR vs ISC Bind/DHCP Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 17:02:37 -0500
We are working here with the hypothesis that Cisco's CNR product is a lamer and inferior in quality to the Internet Software Consortium's open source DNS and DHCP software. Is this a generally accepted hypothesis, or are we off in the weeds (again) by ourselves on this one?
thanks! fletcher
Well, Fletcher, considering that you probably don't know anything about the product, do you really feel it necessary to publicly bash it? On what information to you base your bold assertion?
one would hope that cisco licensed the core code for this from Nominum (www.nominum.com). i don't consider application/software development to be cisco's "thing". -b
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:26:30 PST "Ron Buchalski" wrote:
Well, Fletcher, considering that you probably don't know anything about the product, do you really feel it necessary to publicly bash it? On what information to you base your bold assertion?
Ron; I would agree with your conclusion, if your base assumption is correct, which it is not. Right now, we are running CNR in production in one cable modem network. We are running the ISC DHCP/DNS suite on several other networks, one of them cable modem. We are about to deploy an additional cable network and a DSL network. Before using ISC again, I wanted to check that there had been no change in Cisco CNR status, that might lead us to do a full blown evaluation again (these things cost money.) I haven't turned up any evidence that there have been any changes useful to larger installations like ours. If you have information to the contrary, please let me know. thanks! fletcher
If you are looking at CNR and are running in a cable modem Have you inquired/looked at the Cisco CSRC product for provisioning it? You might want to look at CNR as it is part of the CSRC solution for provisioning/managing not only Cisco but any DOCSIS compliant cable modem _Thomas At 03:43 PM 3/20/2000 -0500, you wrote:
On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:26:30 PST "Ron Buchalski" wrote:
Well, Fletcher, considering that you probably don't know anything about
the
product, do you really feel it necessary to publicly bash it? On what information to you base your bold assertion?
Ron;
I would agree with your conclusion, if your base assumption is correct, which it is not. Right now, we are running CNR in production in one cable modem network. We are running the ISC DHCP/DNS suite on several other networks, one of them cable modem.
We are about to deploy an additional cable network and a DSL network. Before using ISC again, I wanted to check that there had been no change in Cisco CNR status, that might lead us to do a full blown evaluation again (these things cost money.) I haven't turned up any evidence that there have been any changes useful to larger installations like ours. If you have information to the contrary, please let me know.
thanks! fletcher
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:44:28 -0500 Thomas Novak wrote:
If you are looking at CNR and are running in a cable modem
Have you inquired/looked at the Cisco CSRC product for provisioning it?
You might want to look at CNR as it is part of the CSRC solution for provisioning/managing not only Cisco but any DOCSIS compliant cable modem
Thanks for your suggestion Thomas! We have tested, evaluated and used CSRC in production. We think that tftp still works pretty well. Different applications need different tools. The right tool for a large business which is not an ISP is not necessarily the right tool for an ISP. It can be a high quality tool for a non-ISP, and not be right for an ISP. I have noticed over the last 15 years, the rise of the assumption that GUIs (or in the last 7 the web interface) are useful under a wide variety of circumstances and are always better than command line or API interfaces. For some set of high value clients, a GUI or web interface, if it adds bugs, is actually a negative. For people like us, we want efficient, reliable service components with clean, clearly documented APIs. Our job is to build reliable systems with high performance integration with other system components, such as metering, monitoring and billing systems. In general, GUIs are for untrained and casual users. I like these for things like Visio and Spreadsheets which are not core applications for me. If you are working with tens of thousands of simultaneous connections, you better not be maintaining your DHCP records and DOCSIS configurations with a GUI! Once again, I would draw the analogy with Cisco's (or Livingston,Xyzel,Bay,etc,etc,insert router vendor here) "router configuration GUI". If router configuration is tangential to your core business, you probably use one of these. If router configuration is your core business, I bet you dream in IOS command line syntax from time to time. Any how, I sincerely appreciate all the input I have recieved from all of you. It has been generally high quality yet colorful, like most NANOG discussions. I am sorry if my initial request for feedback seemed flippant. While I do hope the bug count for CSRC/CNR goes down, I would guess that for a large market segment, it is the best tool. For us, we will stick with the ISC DNS/DHCP/tftp suite. regards, fletcher
I am glad that I am not the only person who dreams in IOS! Fletcher E Kittredge wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:44:28 -0500 Thomas Novak wrote:
If you are looking at CNR and are running in a cable modem
Have you inquired/looked at the Cisco CSRC product for provisioning it?
You might want to look at CNR as it is part of the CSRC solution for provisioning/managing not only Cisco but any DOCSIS compliant cable modem
Thanks for your suggestion Thomas! We have tested, evaluated and used CSRC in production. We think that tftp still works pretty well.
Different applications need different tools. The right tool for a large business which is not an ISP is not necessarily the right tool for an ISP. It can be a high quality tool for a non-ISP, and not be right for an ISP.
I have noticed over the last 15 years, the rise of the assumption that GUIs (or in the last 7 the web interface) are useful under a wide variety of circumstances and are always better than command line or API interfaces. For some set of high value clients, a GUI or web interface, if it adds bugs, is actually a negative.
For people like us, we want efficient, reliable service components with clean, clearly documented APIs. Our job is to build reliable systems with high performance integration with other system components, such as metering, monitoring and billing systems. In general, GUIs are for untrained and casual users. I like these for things like Visio and Spreadsheets which are not core applications for me. If you are working with tens of thousands of simultaneous connections, you better not be maintaining your DHCP records and DOCSIS configurations with a GUI!
Once again, I would draw the analogy with Cisco's (or Livingston,Xyzel,Bay,etc,etc,insert router vendor here) "router configuration GUI". If router configuration is tangential to your core business, you probably use one of these. If router configuration is your core business, I bet you dream in IOS command line syntax from time to time.
Any how, I sincerely appreciate all the input I have recieved from all of you. It has been generally high quality yet colorful, like most NANOG discussions. I am sorry if my initial request for feedback seemed flippant. While I do hope the bug count for CSRC/CNR goes down, I would guess that for a large market segment, it is the best tool. For us, we will stick with the ISC DNS/DHCP/tftp suite.
regards, fletcher
Hello All, I have been searching for a concise list of Backbone connectivity providers that can provide connectivity (-ge ds3) in Vancouver, BC . Does anyone know of such a list ? I have searched the 'boardwatch' site & that is at best tedious , trying to determine (reasonably quickly) who of them have POP's in BC & are NSP's . All help appreciated. JimL +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | James W. Laferriere | System Techniques | Give me VMS | | Network Engineer | 25416 22nd So | Give me Linux | | babydr@baby-dragons.com | DesMoines WA 98198 | only on AXP | +----------------------------------------------------------------+
Hello All, Thank you for all the pointers . But it seems I didn't word my request well . I was looking for a 'list' of NSP's that service the BC (primarily Vancouver) area . I need a list (a couple of you have provided a nice start) in order to perform some research for a sister company located there . I am not (now) looking for connectivity . The referance to ds3 was to somwwhat assure that I would be getting a list of BackBone providers and not a smaller dialup isp type . Tnx, JimL On Tue, 21 Mar 2000, Mr. James W. Laferriere wrote:
Hello All, I have been searching for a concise list of Backbone connectivity providers that can provide connectivity (-ge ds3) in Vancouver, BC . Does anyone know of such a list ? I have searched the 'boardwatch' site & that is at best tedious , trying to determine (reasonably quickly) who of them have POP's in BC & are NSP's . All help appreciated. JimL +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | James W. Laferriere | System Techniques | Give me VMS | | Network Engineer | 25416 22nd So | Give me Linux | | babydr@baby-dragons.com | DesMoines WA 98198 | only on AXP | +----------------------------------------------------------------+
participants (6)
-
brett watson -
Fletcher E Kittredge -
Mr. James W. Laferriere -
Ron Buchalski -
Scott McGrath -
Thomas Novak